Talk:Andrew Jackson/Archive 14
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Andrew Jackson, slave trader
Hi Jengod, You added description of Andrew Jackson as a slave trader in the lead that linked to the article, Andrew Jackson and the slave trade in the United States. I reverted the link because it needs to be in the main text before it is considered for the lead. I think it could easily be put in the main text with Cheathem's 2011 article Andrew Jackson, Slavery, and Historians p. 327 as a source.
What I'm less sure of is whether it should be in the lead. Though Jackson was engaged in treating enslaved people as commodities, including buying and selling, which was part of his being a plantation slave owner, he says he gave up his role of being involved in the business of trading in slaves before 1800 he became involved in national politics. So while there's no doubt he was involved in the business of trading early in his life and it should be mentioned, it doesn't seem like it wasn't part of his professional identity, like it was for someone like Nathan Bedford Forrest.
So, my own thought is that it should go in the article, maybe early in the Legal career and marriage section, but not necessarily in the lead. I'd like to hear your thoughts, as well as gather the consensus of those who watch this page. Wtfiv (talk) 07:41, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- I agree, based on the sources presented, that it should be placed in the article. The lead should be for specific events and those things which he is most notable for. I'm not sure this would qualify. There is so much material on this very controversial former president and soldier. I doubt the article could contain every aspect of his life in great detail without risk of becoming so verbose again. I would include it as Wtfiv mentions and proceed from there. --ARoseWolf 11:31, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Wtfiv@ARoseWolf legal career and marriage section sounds great and Cheathem's article would be a good source to cite. I'll wait a day or so in case anyone else wants to weigh in. Anyone else who wants to edit between now and then, please go to town--I don't feel particularly comfortable editing this article! That said, my gut (and a close reading of the fragmentary detail we have) suggests to me he was trading to some extent for the better part of 20 years (~1790–~1810). Perhaps eventually scholars will be able to shed more light on this huge question for which there are few clear answers. jengod (talk) 15:12, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- We could also just edit/add a clause in the slavery section:
- Jackson also participated in the local slave trade.
- >>
- Jackson was also an [[Andrew Jackson and the slave trade in the United States|early speculator]] in the [[slave trade in the United States|North American slave trade]], trafficking people between Nashville and the [[Natchez District]] of [[Spanish West Florida]] via the [[Natchez Trace]]. jengod (talk) 15:38, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- I think that placement might make better sense than even under the legal career and marriage section. --ARoseWolf 15:56, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- The couple spent time together in the lower Mississippi River valley, where Jackson owned a trading post and racetrack, and was an [[Andrew Jackson and the slave trade in the United States|early speculator]] in the [[slave trade in the United States|North American slave trade]], trafficking people between Nashville and the [[Natchez District]] of [[Spanish West Florida]] via the [[Natchez Trace]].
- ...? jengod (talk) 16:51, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- Where do you envision this statement fitting? --ARoseWolf 17:28, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- After the separation, Jackson and Rachel became romantically involved, living together as husband and wife. The couple spent time together in the lower Mississippi River valley, where Jackson owned a trading post and racetrack, and where he worked as a "negro speculator", trafficking people between Nashville and the Natchez District of Spanish West Florida via the Natchez Trace. Robards petitioned for divorce in 1790 [?], which was granted on the basis of Rachel's infidelity. jengod (talk) 19:08, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- Added a sentence. I put it at the end of the paragraph preceding the one describing Jackson and Rachel, as it looks like he was already into the trade in 1788, before he became involved with Rachel. Changed the language to stay close the language of the sources. "trafficking" changed to "transporting" as the trade wasn't illegal. (Though as Remini's article points out, as well as the Wikipedia article on Jackson and the slave trade, he most likely participated in activities that were at least in the gray zone if not further. I put Cheathem as the reference for the first half. Used Remini's journal article on Jackson and the Natchez trace as a source on the second half. Also added the date of the divorce and used Remini's vol 1 as a source for it. Wtfiv (talk) 01:53, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks so much! Words and sourcing look great. jengod (talk) 02:37, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- Added a sentence. I put it at the end of the paragraph preceding the one describing Jackson and Rachel, as it looks like he was already into the trade in 1788, before he became involved with Rachel. Changed the language to stay close the language of the sources. "trafficking" changed to "transporting" as the trade wasn't illegal. (Though as Remini's article points out, as well as the Wikipedia article on Jackson and the slave trade, he most likely participated in activities that were at least in the gray zone if not further. I put Cheathem as the reference for the first half. Used Remini's journal article on Jackson and the Natchez trace as a source on the second half. Also added the date of the divorce and used Remini's vol 1 as a source for it. Wtfiv (talk) 01:53, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- After the separation, Jackson and Rachel became romantically involved, living together as husband and wife. The couple spent time together in the lower Mississippi River valley, where Jackson owned a trading post and racetrack, and where he worked as a "negro speculator", trafficking people between Nashville and the Natchez District of Spanish West Florida via the Natchez Trace. Robards petitioned for divorce in 1790 [?], which was granted on the basis of Rachel's infidelity. jengod (talk) 19:08, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- Where do you envision this statement fitting? --ARoseWolf 17:28, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- I think that placement might make better sense than even under the legal career and marriage section. --ARoseWolf 15:56, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Wtfiv@ARoseWolf legal career and marriage section sounds great and Cheathem's article would be a good source to cite. I'll wait a day or so in case anyone else wants to weigh in. Anyone else who wants to edit between now and then, please go to town--I don't feel particularly comfortable editing this article! That said, my gut (and a close reading of the fragmentary detail we have) suggests to me he was trading to some extent for the better part of 20 years (~1790–~1810). Perhaps eventually scholars will be able to shed more light on this huge question for which there are few clear answers. jengod (talk) 15:12, 13 August 2024 (UTC)