Talk:All-Palestine Protectorate

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What is this article about?

I looked at all of the sources here, including the recommended reading, including about a dozen other sources I have that describe the All-Palestine Government in detail, and I searched at Google Scholar, but I couldn't find a single mention of either "All-Palestine Protectorate" or "Gaza Protectorate". Did I miss the literature on this entity? The article is written as if there was a state-like entity the encompassed the Gaza Strip, but there was no such entity in that time period. There was only a "government" which claimed jurisdiction over all of historical Palestine — Gaza had no significance to it beyond being the place the government was seated. Nor did I find anywhere in the references or anywhere else I looked that "protectorate" would be a legally correct description if used in lowercase. Actually it fitted "protected state" better (see protectorate for the distinction) but it wasn't known as that either. The latest partly-cited (to an unreliable tertiary source) text that Greyshark09 (talk · contribs) added only makes it worse. We obviously need the article All-Palestine Government about an important historical body, but what is the justification for this highly dubious content fork? Zero^talk 11:43, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

From 1948 to 1959, Gazan residents lived under formal authority of All-Palestine Government had All-Palestine passports and were NOT under the military governorship of Egypt; All-Palestine protectorate was a short-living geopolitical entity indirectly governed by Egypt whereas its government was first seated in Gaza and later in Cairo exile. It is a good point that the protectorate should be lower case though - agree with that.GreyShark (dibra) 15:33, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You still haven't provided evidence that there was something more than the All-Palestine Government, which already has an article. As far as I have read (or rather, recall reading) the APG had none of the trappings of a local governmental authority such as a police force, law courts, and power to regulate land ownership. All it did was engage in diplomacy and issue passports. Moreover, APG passports were available to all Palestinians, not only to Gazans. Although it was seated in Gaza for a while, it behaved like a government-in-exile, not like a mini-state. Zero^talk 05:52, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion it had all state features in its first months of existence (September - December 1948), but its authority was damaged due to relocation to Cairo and inability to return to Gaza due to Egyptian pressure. Since 1951/2 it lost most of its governance roles with Arab League's decision to put Gaza under the official aegis (protection) of Egypt and with ups and downs it was cancelled in 1959 via merger into the UAR and de-facto coming the military rule of Egypt (occupation per se). It is obvious that there was no military occupation in Gaza during 1948-1959, so how would you name it?GreyShark (dibra) 14:12, 17 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The opinion of the world, apart from the few countries that recognised APG, is that the Gaza Strip was under Egyptian occupation for 1948–1967 except during the period of Israeli occupation. Egypt maintained armed forces there. It is easy to find lots of citations that say that the Egyptian military administration, and not the APG, controlled life. There is nothing at all here that should not be in either All-Palestine Government or Gaza Strip. When I have more time, I'll make an official merge proposal. Zero^talk 08:08, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree - during 1948-1959 (and especially 1948-1952), the Gaza enclave was not under Egyptian military occupation. Just because some sources refer to the 1948-1967 period as a continuous period which ended with Egyptian military occupation doesn't mean that the whole period was such. In the Jordanian West Bank case, the occupation lasted for a brief period of two years prior to non-recognized annexation. The All-Palestine can have an entire tree of articles to be expanded including the All-Palestine National Council, the All-Palestine Passport, Gaza Legislative Council, the already existing Holy War Army article and more.GreyShark (dibra) 08:31, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You haven't produced a single source saying that the APG exercised local control. I looked but couldn't find any; instead, I found the opposite repeatedly. This article won't have a case for existence until you or someone else proves that there ever was such a thing as an All-Palestine protectorate (either P or p). Zero^talk 09:01, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Daniel Pipes described the 1948 experiment in the Gaza Strip as protectorate JP opinion (2008), and so did Paola Caridi‏ in Hamas: From Resistance to Government book (2012) saying "The difference in approach came in 1956-57, when Israel occupied Gaza for a brief period during the Egyptian protectorate".GreyShark (dibra) 10:54, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A typical description: "On May 26, 1948, the Egyptian government officially placed the Gaza Strip under its administrative control, as an area "subject to the supervision of the Egyptian forces in Palestine." Initially, Egypt helped the Gazans form an All Palestine Council, but it closed the council's office in late 1948, preferring to control the area directly through an Egyptian military governor. The governor appointed local inhabitants as municipal and village council members, and through them, Egypt controlled the civil and security functions in the Strip." (Bob Labes, The Law of Belligerent Occupation and the Legal Status of the Gaza Strip, 9 Mich. YBI Legal Stud. 383 (1988)) Zero^talk 11:05, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Quote from "Inter-Arab Rivalry and the All-Palestine Government of 1948" by Johanna Caldwell: In early September, a meeting of the Arab League political committee resulted in the formal announcement of the establishment of a Gaza-based Palestinian government. Even the name “All-Palestine Government” is symbolic of the Egyptian strategy to lay claim not only to the territories of Gaza and what became Israel, but also to the West Bank, which Abdullah was claiming to represent. Two days after this formal announcement, on 22 September, the Arab Higher Committee put out a statement declaring the Palestinian state and the All-Palestine Government as its government, citing “their natural right to self-determination.”[46] Hajj Amin al-Husayni left his exile in Egypt and arrived in Gaza on 27 September in order to be part of the new government.[47] By the end of the month, however, there was already tangible opposition from Transjordan.

What is clear is that the state was declared and that steps were taken to exercise authority in Gaza area: As mentioned in the introduction, the All-Palestine Government had created an army, organized a UN delegation, and issued passports in an attempt to instill legitimacy in the new government.[51] However, these nominal efforts to create a functional government were immaterial, for the All-Palestine Government lacked all necessary military, political, and diplomatic power to function as a viable state.

The results are of course known - from October 1948 the All-Palestine institutions began to deteriorate and within a decade, All-Palestine seized to exist. This decade is however an important period of Palestinian attempts for independence and All-Palestine Government article tackles only one aspect of this geopolitical-historical attempt.GreyShark (dibra) 10:45, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment just found a curious quote that the All-Palestine Government was dissolved by the League in 1953, though the Prime Minister Halimi continued to attend sessions of the Arab League council on behalf of it Middle East Record Volume 1 - pg.128.11:57, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned references in All-Palestine Protectorate

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of All-Palestine Protectorate's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Kassim":

From All-Palestine Government: Palestine Yearbook of International Law 1987-1988, Vol 4, by Anis F. Kassim, Kluwer Law International (1 June 1988), ISBN 90-411-0341-4, p 294
From History of the State of Palestine: Kassim, 1997.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 21:15, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicate Article?

It seems that the article for the "All-Palestine Protectorate" and the "All-Palestine Government" are actually one and the same thing?

If true, how can this be remedied?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Palestine_Government

-- Geekeasy (talk) 07:59, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Those are not the same things - the All-Palestine Government was the government of the All-Palestine Protectorate, which also had a provisional Parliament, an Army and various semi-functional institutions, which had been gradually abolished by Egypt during the 1950s.GreyShark (dibra) 08:52, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Geekeasy is correct. As I wrote above and you provided no contrary evidence for, there was never such a thing as an All-Palestine Protectorate. A merge is required. Zero^talk 11:15, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That is your opinion, though you are welcome either to propose merge or rename to All-Palestine protectorate.GreyShark (dibra) 11:50, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Broken Link to Amin Al-Husseini

The link to the first leader of the All Palestine State is broken and someone locked the article beyond my level. Sir Charms a Lot (talk) 01:57, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]