Talk:2021 Città di Forlì II
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 | On 6 April 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to 2021 Città di Forlì. The result of the discussion was Procedural close. |
Requested move 27 November 2021[edit]
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Moved per consensus below to rename away from the "Internazionali" title. However since more than one title has been suggested, then WP:OTHEROPTIONS comes into play. The options are:
- Città di Forlì II- Trofeo Mbm – by IP editor 82+
- Città di Forlì II – by editor Adamtt9
- 2021 Città di Forlì II – by editor Adamtt9
- 2021 Città di Forlì II – Trofeo MBM – by editor Adamtt9
Seems the best title for this article is 2021 Città di Forlì II. As the supplement guides us, "the closer should pick the best title of the options available, and then be clear that while consensus has rejected the former title (and no request to bring it back should be made lightly), there is no consensus for the title actually chosen. And if anyone objects to the closer's choice, then instead of taking it to move review, they should simply make another move request at any time, which will hopefully lead the article to its final stable title." Thanks and kudos to editors for your input, and Happy, Healthy Editing! (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth - ed. put'r there 04:08, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
2021 Internazionali di Tennis Città di Forlì II → Città di Forlì II- Trofeo Mbm – Internazionali di Tennis Città di Forlì was the title used for the two past Challenger events played in Forlì, both on red clay, whose official title was << Internazionali di Tennis Città di Forlì “Memorial Piero Contavalli" >> as you can see from its official wepage https://internazionaliforli.com/news/ and so its relative wikipedia page should be changed accordingly too. This tournament is named " Città di Forlì Trofeo MBM" which is different not only in the title but also in the surface and the organizators https://www.forlitoday.it/sport/altro/a-forli-due-settimane-di-grande-tennis-internazionale-due-tornei-e-nuovo-manto-sintetico.html. Also the official webpage for the previous two Challengers played in Forlì doesn't report this new Challenger either, confirming it's a different tournament. 82.57.44.34 (talk) 16:37, 27 November 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 18:31, 4 December 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran • sign the guestbook • (talk) 04:35, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose – tournament is referred to on the official ATP site as Città di Forlì II as a second edition of the previous tournament. Tournaments are not referred to using sponsorship especially on the Challenger tour as sponsors change frequently, so the more common theme is to name tournaments after the city they are hosted in (eg. Knoxville Challenger, Maia Challenger, Antalya Challenger, etc.) Adamtt9 (talk) 01:18, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
- As i mentioned above, this tournament has different surface, official website and different organizators, the only thing in common is the venue. This case is very very similar, i'd say equal to that of Biella, where tournaments were played indoor and outdoor this year and they were respectively differentiated in Biella Challenger Indoor for the indoor ones and Challenger Pulcra Lachiter Biella for the red clay ones, with a title change very much so as i requested here. Moreover this is really the successive edition of Biella Challenger, the organizators said it themselves in this article: https://www.lastampa.it/biella/sport/2021/10/07/news/tennis-i-due-nuovi-challenger-atp-80-a-forli-napolitano-biella-non-e-competitiva-per-ospitare-i-miei-tornei-1.40781921/ and i quote "Biella was not competitive to host my tournaments". So it should not refer to "Città di Forlì" previous tournaments in the infobox. In fact, "Città di Forlì" tournament played on red clay has not changed into an indoor event, it will come back as a 125 event in the second week of the French Open as you can see here https://www.ilrestodelcarlino.it/forl%C3%AC/sport/villa-carpena-ora-tre-nuovi-tornei-e-a-maggio-un-challenger-125-1.7084219 and here https://www.net-gen.it/tornei/tutto-pronto-per-i-due-challenger-atp-a-villa-carpena-e-nel-2022-altri-quattro/. About the uncommon title mentioning the sponsor, there are multiple example ( Trofeo Faip–Perrel played in the unmentioned Bergamo, NÖ Open, BNP Paribas Polish Cup etc.. While there are similar cases to the one in the proposal with both city and sponsor in the title like BSI Challenger Lugano, Heilbronner Neckarcup) and the Biella's one mentioned above.82.57.44.34 (talk) 11:58, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
- Your mentioned Biella tournaments were however named Biella Challengers I through VI or VII, just linked to a different tournament. So this article has the correct title, you are just wanting it to become disconnected from the other versions of Forlì challenger. Is that correct? Adamtt9 (talk) 13:08, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
- No. Biella challenger "edition" tournaments have all general titles ( Biella Challenger I, II, etc..) but were grouped under two different main articles. This title on Forlì challenger is very specific and linked to the Forlì tournaments played on red clay. I think we need just like Biella two main articles under which regroup the ones played indoor and the ones played on red clay. If you don't like "Città di Forlì- Trofeo Mbm" you can call it "Forlì Challenger indoor" like in Biella's case, or something else and i'm fine with it as long as it's not "Internazionali di tennis città di Forlì" which is about the tournaments played on red clay.82.57.44.34 (talk) 13:25, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
- I have went ahead and made some changes and moves as it seems we are in agreement about what is going on. Tell me if these moves were the correct one, and feel free to enhance the Città di Forlì – Trofeo MBM article if you have anything to add to it. I see you linked many sources in this conversation so feel free to add them into the article if you'd like. Adamtt9 (talk) 13:36, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
- I'm ok with your additions and modifications. Accordingly to the link updated above https://www.net-gen.it/tornei/tutto-pronto-per-i-due-challenger-atp-a-villa-carpena-e-nel-2022-altri-quattro/ the Forlì Challenger of January 3rd, and January 17th should be changed to the new indoor title too in the main links found here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_ATP_Challenger_Tour. The tournament of January 10th, it is said there it will be indoor but won't be held in Forlì, and since it's not clear where it will be... somewhere in Romagna (the same italian region of Forlì) i think it's for the best to leave it as Forlì indoor tournament too ( or you can change it into "Romagna indoor", I leave the choice up to you). I don't know if you agree to make the link with the Biella challenger indoor, from where organizator moved to Forlì. if so we can link both previous winners in single and double and add the related link connecting the two tournaments https://www.lastampa.it/biella/sport/2021/10/07/news/tennis-i-due-nuovi-challenger-atp-80-a-forli-napolitano-biella-non-e-competitiva-per-ospitare-i-miei-tornei-1.40781921/ into the reference. I don't have a source saying explicitely the licence was passed to Forlì, so we should take the word of the organizator for it.82.57.44.34 (talk) 15:12, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
- I have went ahead and made some changes and moves as it seems we are in agreement about what is going on. Tell me if these moves were the correct one, and feel free to enhance the Città di Forlì – Trofeo MBM article if you have anything to add to it. I see you linked many sources in this conversation so feel free to add them into the article if you'd like. Adamtt9 (talk) 13:36, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
- No. Biella challenger "edition" tournaments have all general titles ( Biella Challenger I, II, etc..) but were grouped under two different main articles. This title on Forlì challenger is very specific and linked to the Forlì tournaments played on red clay. I think we need just like Biella two main articles under which regroup the ones played indoor and the ones played on red clay. If you don't like "Città di Forlì- Trofeo Mbm" you can call it "Forlì Challenger indoor" like in Biella's case, or something else and i'm fine with it as long as it's not "Internazionali di tennis città di Forlì" which is about the tournaments played on red clay.82.57.44.34 (talk) 13:25, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
- Your mentioned Biella tournaments were however named Biella Challengers I through VI or VII, just linked to a different tournament. So this article has the correct title, you are just wanting it to become disconnected from the other versions of Forlì challenger. Is that correct? Adamtt9 (talk) 13:08, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
- As i mentioned above, this tournament has different surface, official website and different organizators, the only thing in common is the venue. This case is very very similar, i'd say equal to that of Biella, where tournaments were played indoor and outdoor this year and they were respectively differentiated in Biella Challenger Indoor for the indoor ones and Challenger Pulcra Lachiter Biella for the red clay ones, with a title change very much so as i requested here. Moreover this is really the successive edition of Biella Challenger, the organizators said it themselves in this article: https://www.lastampa.it/biella/sport/2021/10/07/news/tennis-i-due-nuovi-challenger-atp-80-a-forli-napolitano-biella-non-e-competitiva-per-ospitare-i-miei-tornei-1.40781921/ and i quote "Biella was not competitive to host my tournaments". So it should not refer to "Città di Forlì" previous tournaments in the infobox. In fact, "Città di Forlì" tournament played on red clay has not changed into an indoor event, it will come back as a 125 event in the second week of the French Open as you can see here https://www.ilrestodelcarlino.it/forl%C3%AC/sport/villa-carpena-ora-tre-nuovi-tornei-e-a-maggio-un-challenger-125-1.7084219 and here https://www.net-gen.it/tornei/tutto-pronto-per-i-due-challenger-atp-a-villa-carpena-e-nel-2022-altri-quattro/. About the uncommon title mentioning the sponsor, there are multiple example ( Trofeo Faip–Perrel played in the unmentioned Bergamo, NÖ Open, BNP Paribas Polish Cup etc.. While there are similar cases to the one in the proposal with both city and sponsor in the title like BSI Challenger Lugano, Heilbronner Neckarcup) and the Biella's one mentioned above.82.57.44.34 (talk) 11:58, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
- Comment. The proposed title seems to be incorrectly formatted with an unspaced hyphen. As pointed out, another article exists at the correctly formatted Città di Forlì – Trofeo MBM, so perhaps this proposed title should be Città di Forlì II – Trofeo MBM? P.I. Ellsworth - ed. put'r there 11:08, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Since this is actually a yearly edition article for the tournament mentioned at Città di Forlì – Trofeo MBM, the correct title would mention 2021. Now the tennis WikiProject also try and avoid using sponsorships in the article titles for yearly editions as the sponsors change frequently. That's why I had moved it to 2021 Città di Forlì II though I guess 2021 Città di Forlì II – Trofeo MBM works as well. Adamtt9 (talk) 19:45, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
- I also want to add that titling it 2021 Città di Forlì II would keep the article in line with the following edition of the tournament, 2021 Città di Forlì III. Adamtt9 (talk) 17:00, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
Requested move 6 April 2022[edit]
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Procedural close. Relevant discussion is ongoing at Talk:2021 Città di Forlì III – Doubles § Requested move 6 April 2022. (closed by non-admin page mover) —CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • C • L) 10:56, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
2021 Città di Forlì II → 2021 Città di Forlì – Since Città di Forlì was split from Internazionali di Tennis Città di Forlì, they have their own past finals and past editions separated and so it makes no sense to start counting from another tournament. Therefore this page, the Singles' and the Doubles' one should be moved accordingly to the new title above, with the correct numeration 79.42.106.116 (talk) 17:59, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
NOTE: To keep the discussion & arguments being made in this group of RMs from being fractured across multiple talk pages, all future arguments & discussions on this RM should be made at Talk:2021 Città di Forlì III – Doubles § Requested move 6 April 2022. Arguments already made here are moved there accordingly. Thanks! —CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • C • L) 10:40, 16 April 2022 (UTC)