Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive234

SPECIFICO

Netoholic (talk · contribs) is warned not to use administrative boards to further disputes on Wikipedia. TonyBallioni (talk) 04:06, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning SPECIFICO User who is submitting this request for enforcement Netoholic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 22:44, 22 May 2018 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested SPECIFICO (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced WP:ARBAPDS, specifically Discretionary sanctions guidelines involving decorum and expectation to follow guidelines such as WP:HOUNDING, WP:BLUDGEONING, WP:ASPERSIONS : Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 16:14 21 May - tag-team, snap-revert within 5 minutes, reverting my revert of a WP:BOLD removal of a well-cited section, with no intervening discussion on his part. 16:17 post-revert reply to my talk page post. 20:49 22 May - "copy edit" which substantially alters/revert the lead, an edit made shortly after I made a reply to someone else on the talk page about a compromise change to the lead at 20:26. 19:02, 19:04, 19:37, 21:45, 21:46, 22:45 21 May, 03:10, 03:13, 18:35, 19:50, 20:08, 20:21 - Various replies directed at me to demonstrate (WP:HOUNDING/WP:BLUDGEONING) 00:37 20 May, 20:10 22 May, 20:59 22 May WP:ASPERSIONS that I reverted his page move 03:49 20 May, 21:07 22 May - Diffs from me informing SPECIFICO that I did not move the page 07:59 12 May - Diff of the actual page move by User:Lionelt 21:12, 21:13 22 May - Responses to my request to stop HOUNDING (no acknowledgement of his false accusation) Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any 20 May 2018 warned by TonyBallioni (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) " reminding you of the behavioral standards expected of Wikipedia editors, and warning that not following them in the future will likely lead to sanctions." If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on 20 May 2018 by TonyBallioni (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA). 22 April 2017 by NeilN (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA). Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above. Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on numerous occasions Additional comments by editor filing complaint In just over two days since the close of an AE request I made regarding SPECIFICO (Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive232#SPECIFICO) up to my notice on his talk page about this HOUNDING, he had made 36 edits total, at least 17 of those (47%) were spent reverting me, replying to my comments on talk pages, and mentioning me by name - often within moments - and never making overtures toward congeniality, but filled with insistent, WP:BATTLEGROUND "This is how it is" attitude. I'm sure he'll have some reasonable explanation for individual actions, and some were naturally part of mutual exchanges, but his overall focus on me and lack of effort to try other areas of work to avoid it is undeniable. This sort of activity was the case even before the other AE, also, but I've limited my diffs to after he received his logged warning to show a pattern of reprisal. When I brought this to his attention, he was dismissive, and instead continued to repeat a claim that I reverted a page move he did. After several times telling him he was mistaken, and even showing diff proof that it was someone else who moved it, SPECIFICO has not acknowledged his mistake. My feeling is that he is not adhering to the warning given, and is pursuing an effort designed to confound my interactions with other editors based on a mistaken belief in a perceived wrong that is provably incorrect. The prior logged warning seems to have fallen on deaf ears. -- Netoholic @ 22:44, 22 May 2018 (UTC) I don't think this relates much with the User:Factchecker atyourservice AE going on, except perhaps as a concrete, time-limited example of SPECIFICO's style of BATTLEGROUND tactics. This is strictly covering SPECIFICO's behavior within 2 days of receiving a warning about expectations of behavior, which one would assume he would do everything to at least initially avoid such scrutiny. Yet, I detect no change in his approach, no remorse, and no acknowledgement of the problem. -- Netoholic @ 00:12, 23 May 2018 (UTC) If I had to point to one action which I feel especially clear about his behavior, its the 20:49 22 May - "copy edit" above. I had reached an amicable solution with another editor, then SPECIFICO almost immediately crushed that section to dust under the misleading edit comment "copy edit". He didn't inform the talk page of his intentions. To my mind, it felt like he couldn't stand seeing any minor agreement or cooperation taking place, so he salted the earth. -- Netoholic @ 04:36, 23 May 2018 (UTC) To editor Sandstein: - The section of my diffs labeled "Various" is included just to demonstrate my statement that 47% of his recent edits have been directed at me. Take for example this AfD, 4 editors have voted "Keep", but SPECIFICO has only directly replied to my vote comment. I do not reciprocate. I do not direct comments at him unless its a reply to something he said to me or mentioned me in. I keep quite busy across the project. In this same timespan I've created a new article of about 11k characters. I've continued my participation in WP:RM. But I do want to provide input on the main article the diffs are from, and when I do, I want to interact with a variety of other editors there. I do not deserve to be singled out by SPECIFICO and challenged on -everything-. When deciding on HOUNDING, ask yourself this: When given the opportunity, does SPECIFICO specifically seek to interact with me over others? Yes. When given the opportunity to do anything but interact with SPECIFICO, do I? Yes. -- Netoholic @ 07:10, 23 May 2018 (UTC) To any of the admins. You may close this at anytime. Though my intent was in good faith, based on the responses, I now know better when and how its appropriate to use the available conflict resolution venues. You can be assured I have no intent on using this one again regarding this editor. -- Netoholic @ 03:53, 24 May 2018 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested given Discussion concerning SPECIFICO Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by SPECIFICO I think I responded adequately to Netoholic's concern before he filed this complaint. The thread is here [1] I was surprised then to see him file shortly thereafter. Please note that Netoholic's assertion that I failed to correct my error concerning his opposition to my page move is incorrect. As can be seen in the history log, I struck and corrected it 90 minutes before he filed this complaint (immediately after I checked the relevant diffs). That thread was his second visit to my talk page in the two days since his earlier AE complaint was closed. The first one is here [2] SPECIFICO talk 00:08, 23 May 2018 (UTC) For the sake of completeness, in case editors review this file in the future and especially if they've not seen last week's similar complaint, I am providing this link to show the "user interactions" between me and Netoholic over the past 2 years. [3] As can be seen, in 10 of the 13 overlaps, Netoholic's edits followed mine. And one of those pages was Stefan Molyneux where he was violating the TBAN imposed by the community in 2014. Previously, he had appeared to be recruiting me to Molyneux' teachings. [4], for which he was blocked [5]. I don't think any IBAN is needed so long as the record is clear so that this matter need not be relitigated in the future. For my part, I think we can move on now. SPECIFICO talk Statement by Objective3000 I suggest the filer read WP:PETARD and withdraw the complaint before it's too late. O3000 (talk) 23:03, 22 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Tryptofish I've been editing in some of these topic areas recently (example), and I think that this filing should be understood as being in the same "series" as the one just above, about Factchecker-atyourservice. I can confirm that Specifico has been uncivil some of the time, but there's a lot of it going around. And there is some aspect of boomerang here. I don't know if AE can really handle it or whether there needs to be yet a third ArbCom case, but there probably do have to be a rather large number of topic bans. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:27, 22 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by MrX I have to agree with Objective3000 here. A gentle boomerang might be in order. From where I observe, it seems that Netoholic may be pursuing a grudge against SPECIFICO. For example, this comment is uncalled for. A similar comment directed at another editor: [6] Perhaps Netoholic should be reminded that Wikipedia is not a battleground.- MrX 🖋 23:31, 22 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Lionelt Several behavioral policy violations have been lodged against SPECIFICO relating to the Political views article. Netoholic has presented 17 diffs in support of HOUNDING and BLUDGEONING allegations. While these edits look suspicious, it is difficult to determine if these edits are evidence of violations or merely the result of normal editing. Regarding the allegation of ASPERSIONS it does appear that SPECIFICO corrected the error. At this time I cannot recommend sanctions against SPECIFICO. Some editors have suggested BOOMERANG against Netoholic. This is outrageous. It is unconscionable to threaten an editor in good standing with sanctions for bringing a issue to the attention of the community in good faith. With a limited admin corps we depend on editors to help control disruption and maintain civility and to attack these editors is counterproductive and a violation of AGF. BOOMERANG threats without conclusive evidence in the form of diffs should be treated as a personal attack WP:NPA "Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence. Evidence often takes the form of diffs and links presented on wiki." – Lionel(talk) 04:22, 23 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Moxy It's discouraging to see lagitamate complaints so easily dismissed. What people are looking for here is dispute resolution or a rationale as to why.... not a slap in the face. Wikipedia has a behavioral problem and we expect our elected officials to to act and respond in a common sense manner.--Moxy (talk) 05:13, 23 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Geogene I've read Netoholic's diffs. They establish that there's an ongoing content dispute, but fail to demonstrate any behavioral issue. No, if you want to see behavioral issues--Netoholic personalizing the dispute--see MrX's diffs. I wouldn't say that those are heinous, either, but they tend to raise doubts about Netoholic as a force for civility in the dispute. I agree with Objective3000 and others that the question is whether this should close with a boomerang for Netoholic or not. That boomerang would probably be an informal warning from an admin about using AE for BATTLEGROUND ends. Geogene (talk) 05:27, 23 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by JFG Nothing to see here. All editors should be advised to cut the drama down a notch. — JFG talk 06:12, 23 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof This is the second time in three days that Netoholic has attempted to have someone who has opposed their edits sanctioned through an administrative process; just the other day Netoholic filed an unfounded AN3RR case against me for reverting a block-evading sockpuppet on an article that Netoholic had neither edited nor engaged in any talk page discussion at any time, meaning the only reason for them to file the sanction request was to "punish" me for disagreeing with them on other articles. I suggest that Netoholic should engage those he perceives to be his "opponents" in good-faith discussion rather than poorly-supported and time-wasting sanctions requests. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 07:19, 23 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning SPECIFICO This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. This doesn't look actionable to me. The diffs presented here look by and large like the result of normal editing and discussing content issues. Certainly SPECIFICO expresses clear views about some of the questions at issue, but these views appear to relate to the content being discussed, rather than to other editors themselves. Sandstein 06:06, 23 May 2018 (UTC) If there is any "hounding" going on, it's more likely this unsubstantiated report by Netoholic rather than any of the reported edits by SPECIFICO. I could see this being closed with a warning to Netoholic not to use the AE process in a battleground-like manner. Sandstein 06:09, 23 May 2018 (UTC) I see nothing really actionable here. I see a content dispute, and the types of comments that typically accompany that on a politically-charged article, but nothing actionable. There's the start of BATTLEGROUND behavior all around, but not at a point where AE would need to be placed down, only cautioning all sides to watch themselves. --Masem (t) 14:04, 23 May 2018 (UTC) I concur with Sandstein, and would support a logged warning not to abuse the AE process. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:25, 23 May 2018 (UTC) Editors involved in this area need to consider if they really want an AP3 Arbcom case where the remedies could boil down to "a pox on both your houses". If not, all sides may want to keep that possibility in mind while reading over their talk page posts and requests for AE three times before clicking "Publish changes". --NeilN talk to me 14:35, 23 May 2018 (UTC) This complaint is not in itself frivolous, but following so close on the last it might be thought to be so. The edits are not actionable. The complaint might be, at least in as much as an interaction ban may be worth considering. Guy (Help!) 14:38, 23 May 2018 (UTC) Having clicked on every single diff presented by Netoholic, I agree with the consensus here that this request is unfounded and is not actionable. In the context described above by Sandstein, and in light of the fact that Netoholic has been blocked at least once previously for harassing SPECIFICO (scroll up near the top of this mammoth block log), I would support a logged warning to Netoholic about abusing administrative processes. MastCell Talk 00:15, 24 May 2018 (UTC)