Talk:1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight: Difference between revisions

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:::1. Really? Yes. Insisting that the entirety of the expulsions were violent when A) they weren't and B) there is no citation provided is NPOV and agenda pushing. Be specific with citation or keep it general.
:::1. Really? Yes. Insisting that the entirety of the expulsions were violent when A) they weren't and B) there is no citation provided is NPOV and agenda pushing. Be specific with citation or keep it general.
:::2. The citation you provided does not make your point, nor support the sentence you are trying to keep. The quote insists that the Arab league invaded because they Palestinians were failing to defeat the Jewish forces, as well as other factors (including refugees). It also points out that they (Arab countries) were already supporting the Palestinian military cause with soldiers and were failing to have an impact. [[User:Mistamystery|Mistamystery]] ([[User talk:Mistamystery|talk]]) 05:51, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
:::2. The citation you provided does not make your point, nor support the sentence you are trying to keep. The quote insists that the Arab league invaded because they Palestinians were failing to defeat the Jewish forces, as well as other factors (including refugees). It also points out that they (Arab countries) were already supporting the Palestinian military cause with soldiers and were failing to have an impact. [[User:Mistamystery|Mistamystery]] ([[User talk:Mistamystery|talk]]) 05:51, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
::::Regarding 2: You might want to familiarize yourself with what the reliable sources say about the history you're disputing here. Or you could check the primary source that is the cablegram sent to the UN Secretary General by the Arab League on May 15, which laid out their reasons for intervening in Palestine.
::::Additionally, it would be more appropriate to add a citation needed tag to content which you are unsure about; the removal of significant content without bringing it up on the talk page should only be done if you're very confident the information is wrong.
::::The fact that "about 250000–300000 Palestinians fled or were expelled during the 1947–1948 civil war [...] was named as a casus belli for the entry of the Arab League into the country", is a rather basic fact of this history, and I'll remind you that [[WP:Competence is required]]. I don't mean to be rude but I do think that removing basic facts first and asking for sources second, rather than the other way around, is disruptive editing.
::::- [[User:IOHANNVSVERVS|IOHANNVSVERVS]] ([[User talk:IOHANNVSVERVS|talk]]) 08:05, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Revision as of 08:05, 26 March 2024


Water poisoning

While very disturbing, this action, according to the only major source, Morris & Kedar, had but a minor impact. In Acre there were several cases of disease and this became a factor among several, but elsewhere hardly so. The prominent role it takes now in the intro is IMO distracting from the actual major causes for displacement and a case of latest discoveries & publication gaining undue weight. It fully deserves its own paragraph, but the lead/intro should focus on the major factors: 500 depopulated villages is a very large number, plus mass urban flight - that's the topic, and the major causes take precedence over recent scoops covering actions with rather minor effect. Arminden (talk) 07:37, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There's at least one other, but the lead mention is probably undue relative to the other material. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:09, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't negate the fact that poisoning the wells - among psychological warfare and other tactics - was intended to drive further exodus, regardless of whether or not that had a limited effect. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:40, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There was no well poisoning, that's ridiculous. Typhoid (caused by Salmonella bacteria), along with myriad other enteric bacterial infections, was a very common disease prior to technological improvements in water sanitation. We are talking about 1948 Palestine. As a real-world example, my grandparents who lived there had dirt floors, a shared community well and an outhouse to shit in. That was how people lived back then.
More to the point, Morris was talking about TYPHUS, which is not at all related to Typhoid. Typhus is a bacteria spread through lice and fleas and causes and entirely different set of symptoms. SUPER common back then when sanitation was low. In fact, Jews suffered horribly from Typhus in concentration camps. 2607:FEA8:620:EF00:4DC6:8C9F:C727:5815 (talk) 16:37, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here is a link so you can request edit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight&action=edit Gaviriel (talk) 02:07, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

X+Y=700,000

This article says 700,000 were expelled or took flight in 1948.

1) Does anyone know approximately how the 700,000 number breaks down into "expelled" versus "took flight"?

2) Likewise, does anyone know how the 700,000 number breaks down into people leaving the Jewish part of the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine versus the Palestinian Arab part?

3) Similarly, do we know an approximate number of deaths due to well poisoning?

4) And, how many of the 700,000 people were expelled or took flight from the Jewish part of the UN Partition and resettled in the Arab part of the UN Partition?

In short, more numbers would be useful to readers (and to us). Anythingyouwant (talk) 01:55, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Recommend you familiarize yourself with Causes of the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight, including sources (it’s lots of very particular data), and come on back for further discussion regarding any edits on this page. Mistamystery (talk) 01:59, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've looked at that article, but it deals primarily with causes rather than effects. Do you think it provides the numbers of affected persons that I asked about above? Anythingyouwant (talk) 02:07, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Like I said, do a thorough reading of the article (of which more than half is dedicated to academic analysis of the nature and progress of the displacement). There are breakdowns of each type of displacement (which btw, its more than just two), and the sources provided and scholars highlighted may bring you to the numbers you’re looking for. Mistamystery (talk) 02:15, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I will thoroughly scour both articles, but I have already looked briefly at both articles and did not notice the specific numbers I requested. In any event, there should be a section or subsection in this article breaking down the 700,000 number of affected persons, and we should clearly label that section or subsection as such. Anythingyouwant (talk) 02:24, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don’t have full access to this link but it give some number.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0964663911425825?journalCode=slsa Gaviriel (talk) 22:50, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Editing out context and motive

I disagree with this edit which removed from both the lead and the article body a brief description of context. The new nation of Israel was fighting for survival, Palestinian Arab leaders decided to fight a civil war against its existence, and so Israel wanted to remove enemy civilians from the land which the United Nations said would be partitioned for Israel. One need not agree that that was a valid motive to acknowledge it is critical context. Instead we give the impression that peaceful Arab citizens of Israel were deported because of racism and bigotry. Also, the lead should be concise, and it hardly matters what type of poison was used to poison wells, the key point for the lead is that wells were poisoned. Anythingyouwant (talk) 12:19, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That edit seems reasonable to me, since the supposed context is not only that and anyway, the link to the Palestine war is sufficient. Also note that this began before Israel was constituted following the partition plan, also linked in the article. Selfstudier (talk) 12:42, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Can you give an example of omitted context that is equally significant? Also keep in mind that we should not make readers chase links. Per WP:Link, “Do not unnecessarily make a reader chase links: if a highly technical term can be simply explained with very few words, do so.” Certainly the term “Palestine War” does not give readers the deleted information. Anythingyouwant (talk) 12:59, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Palestine war is not a highly technical term and fills in the "context" far better than any cherry picked sentence does. A link to the partition plan in the lead might as well be good, I will have a think where to put it. Selfstudier (talk) 13:08, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It most certainly is a technical term, only someone who has studied the Palestine War would know whether it refers to a civil war, or an international war, or both (much less what particular groups or nations constituted the opposing sides). Anythingyouwant (talk) 13:12, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Or they can click the link. nableezy - 13:51, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"that peaceful Arab citizens of Israel" Were does the article claim that they were either granted or offered citizenship? Dimadick (talk) 17:43, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
By omitting that the Palestinian Arabs decided to be enemies of the UN partition (i.e. enemies of the incipient Israel), the lead paragraph gives the impression that they were peaceful citizens who must have been expelled because of racism or bigotry. A reasonable reader expects relevant context to be presented. Many readers will assume that the “Palestine War” simply refers to the well-known war launched by Arab countries against the incipient state, rather than a civil war. Anythingyouwant (talk) 17:58, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Continuing to mischaracterize the situation. The partition plan (for Jewish and Arab states + J. enclave) required the agreement of both and didn't get it so was not implemented. Israel's subsequent creation was unilateral. The Palestine war article explains both parts, civil and post Israel and that is another reason for linking it. Time to drop this, I think. Selfstudier (talk) 18:03, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There was nothing inaccurate or misleading about the removed material. The Palestinian Arabs decided to oppose the incipient nation of Israel. This is extremely relevant to explain why they (or many of them) were treated as enemies. I agree it’s time for me to drop it, better things to do. But I may reply if people make further comments about what I’ve said that are inaccurate. Anythingyouwant (talk) 18:18, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Request Edit Link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight&action=edit Gaviriel (talk) 02:17, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nakbah

Warum nicht "Nakbah"? Isn't that the most commonly known many for it? Or is this a different event to the Nakbah ? Or is this like the Taiwan pages… Irtapil (talk) 14:59, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If this a stage of the other? Irtapil (talk) 15:01, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
exactly like the Taiwan pages. The English article on the Ben Gurion Canal Project was deleted, despite other languages being unaffected 2601:283:C100:2CF0:C064:A62F:8CB4:EB67 (talk) 20:40, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

vague and misleading

The reason for the expulsion of Palestinians from the region.

The most comprehensive land record of the time, the Survey of Palestine https://www.bjpa.org/content/upload/bjpa/a_su/A%20SURVEY%20OF%20PALESTINE%20DEC%201945-JAN%201946%20VOL%20I.pdf --Gaviriel (talk) 04:52, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Dozens of massacres were conducted by Israeli military forces and between

“Arab rebels, joined by volunteers from neighbouring Arab countries, took to the hills, attacking Jewish settlements and British”

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/The-Arab-Revolt

400 and 600 Palestinian villageswere destroyed. Village

“Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians either fled or were expelled, most of them becoming stateless refugees, while hundreds of thousands of Jews fled or were expelled from Arab countries and were resettled in Israel”


https://www.britannica.com/topic/two-state-solution

In 1947 there were 1.3m Arabs in Palestine, being 2/3 of the population of the Mandate. The Jews had 1/3 of the population and 6% of the land (20% of the productive land). According to a 1946 Census, just under 50% of the population in that area designated by UN 181 for the Jewish state was Jewish (although by 1948 it was over 55%). In the area designated for the Palestinian state but ultimately captured by Israel and incorporated into its state, the population was 97% Palestinian. By the end of the fighting there were 165,000 Palestinians left within Israel. 119,000 were Muslim, 35,000 Christian, 15,000 Druzes. 32,000 were urban/town dwellers, 120,000 villagers, 18,000 nomads. 30,000 were internal 1

refugees, "having fled from one part of the state to the other during the fighting." By May, 1949 there were nearly 800,000 refugees camped near Israeli's borders (Israel: A Country Study, p. 50). Changes in the urban Arab population figures (1947/1949) show the impact on the cities: Jerusalem: 75,000/3,500; Jaffa: 70,000/3,600; Haifa: 71,000/2,900; Lydda-Ramlah: 35,000/2,000; Acre 15,000 /3,500; Tiberias: 5,300/0; Safed: 9,500/0. (Figures from Ian Lustick, Arabs in the Jewish State, 1980).

When archives where opened here is the information that was found in the link below:

Israeli professor Yaron Ezrachi (Rubber Bullets, 1997) says Israel is in the midst of a ‘culture war” over Israeli history and the treatment of Palestinians. Israelis always believed in their “purity of arms,” that they used force only when necessary, only under limited circumstances, never against unarmed civilians, and only because of an implacable Arab enemy determined to exterminate the Jews.

https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/110670/TheRefugeesOf1948.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gaviriel (talk • contribs) 01:05, 26 December 2023 (UTC) Gaviriel (talk) 02:28, 26 December 2023 (UTC) Edit: Incorrect information. Deleted.[reply]


wells were poisoned in a biological warfareprogramme and properties were looted to prevent Palestinian refugees from returning.


Several of the statements above are incorrect. See References:


https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/64952/under-what-laws-did-israel-evict-palestinians-from-their-homes

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/The-Arab-Revolt

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/Palestine-and-the-Palestinians-1948-67

Incorrect or missing reference: “Village wells were poisoned in a biological warfare” The reference has no information on wells poisoning. in 1948 and to whom was poisoned.

Just states what biological warfare is. Gaviriel (talk) 21:27, 25 December 2023 (UTC) Gaviriel (talk) 02:25, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand why you say that there is no reference in the material cited to well-poisoning. The claim, in both the lede and the body of the article, is backed by a link to the article ‘Cast thy bread’: Israeli biological warfare during the 1948 War, which refers repeatedly and explicitly to a programme of poisoning wells. RolandR (talk) 16:01, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article States RUMORS.
This article describes Israel's bacteriological warfare campaign during the first Arab-Israeli war of 1948. Over the decades following that war rumours circulated that Israel had used bacteria, alongside conventional weaponry, in its battle against Palestine's Arabs and the surrounding Arab states.
”Who ever wrote the synapses also spelled rumors incorrectly.”
The only information on well poisoning was with site sources is on the Japanese.
Japanese biological warfare project: ‘One of the expedition’s first objectives was to contaminate all water sources available to the enemy.
Paragraph 15 and 17.
The sited source other then this talks about WW2.
The only article within the link that is suggesting Typhoid in water is owned by Palestine Land Authority.
Palestine Land Authority This site is controlled by a single individual.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/04108560/persons-with-significant-control.
Confirmation Statements
Accounts
Next accounts made up to Last statement dated 15 November 2023'
Palestine Land Authority.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/04108560
See link below:
https://www.plands.org/en/articles-speeches/articles/2003/traces-of-poison%E2%80%93israels-dark-history-revealed
Typhoid is easily spread Via any water source.
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/typhoid
The other links on the site do not work and the information list varies topics through history of the region NOT Well Poisoning in Palestine area done by IDF. Gaviriel (talk) 12:55, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The publisher of the site linked has ties to Muslim Brotherhood he/they are listed/linked terrorist organizations in multiple countries.
(i) Participants included academics, politicians and various organization activists.
They included Professor Salman Abu Sitta (PRC founder,) Dr. Mustafa
Barghouti (affiliated with the Palestinian left and head of the Palestinian National Initiative), Dr. Hussam Hafez (head of the political department of the Syrian embassy in Britain) and Dr. Paul Larudee (anti-Israeli activist from California, cofounder of the Free Gaza Movement (FGM) and the Free Palestine Movement (FPM), two organizations dispatching flotillas to the Gaza Strip) (PRC website). .
The Brotherhood has been designated as a terrorist organization by multiple countries including Eygpt, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2021-003684_EN.html

https://oversight.house.gov/hearing/the-muslim-brotherhoods-global-threat/.
https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/Data/pdf/PDF_11_339_2.pdf
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/egypts-muslim-brotherhood Gaviriel (talk) 14:44, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Salmonella Typhi

Transmission. Typhoid fever and paratyphoid fever are transmitted commonly through the consumption of drinking water or food contaminated with the feces of people who have typhoid fever or paratyphoid fever or of people who are chronic carriers of the responsible bacteria.

Both ill persons and carriers shed Salmonella Typhi in their feces (poop). You can get typhoid fever if you eat food or drink beverages that have been handled by a person who is shedding Salmonella Typhi or if sewage contaminated with Salmonella Typhi bacteria gets into the water you use for drinking or washing food. Gaviriel (talk) 13:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Salmonella enterica subsp. enterica causes typhoid. It also causes Salmonellosis through use of contaminated food or water. How is this relevant to this article? Dimadick (talk) 13:36, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This discusses how Typhoid is actually spread. It is referenced do to accusation of well poisoning from 1948. There has been no independent non bias record of well poisoning during the 1948 outbreak. Gaviriel (talk) 15:01, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No original research take is valid here. The research of Benny Morris and Benjamin Kedar is, however. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:35, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The source is locked behind a pay wall. I’ll check out the two you referenced. Thank you. Gaviriel (talk) 15:41, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is nothing in either Benny Morris or Benjamin Kedar bios from Wikipedia where they discuss well poisoning from 1948.
The Haaretz article is locked behind a paywall. The only part that can be read by general public is the first paragraph not the entirety of the article. Gaviriel (talk) 15:55, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Haaretz piece is just a commentary on this research paper. Iskandar323 (talk) 16:17, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The idea was canceled do to the Geneva convention.

There are how ever more recent dates that claim water poisoning. User:Gaviriel|Gaviriel]] (talk) 16:25, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I found a copy of the full article. If you read down to the bottom it tells you the plan was never implemented and the people involved were executed.
https://israelpalestinenews.org/water-weapon-israeli-hands-ethnic-cleansing/
The possibility of adding targets outside of Israel such as Cairo and Beirut was also proposed, but nothing came of it. The idea behind that was to hinder the Arab armies’ advance.
The two were David Mizrahi and Ezra Horin (Afgin), who set out for the mission in Gaza on May 22, 1948, but were caught and tried in an Egyptian military court for poisoning wells with bacteria, and later executed.
Guttman recounts that he vehemently opposed the operation on moral grounds and also warned that poisoning the water could harm Jews as well
But the plan was scrapped and, said Ben-Natan, “I was left with the poison capsule wich he dosposed in the end.

The operation drew scathing criticism within the system – both within the IDF and among the Yishuv leadership – in part because it violated the 1925 Geneva Protocol banning “the use of bacteriological methods of warfare.” Gaviriel (talk) 16:18, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Self reference in Israeli Resettlement

The section about the Israeli Resettlement contains the phrase "inalienable right of return", in which "right of return" is wiki-linked to this article. Self reference, circular reference, or something else? I don't know if that is wrong, just that it's out of my depth. So I can only inform others here. Humphrey Tribble (talk) 04:55, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see anything wrong here. —Alalch E. 09:39, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 February 2024

In reference to Israelis poisoning wells in the War of 1948, "this was based on false media reports saying Israeli rabbis were inciting the poisoning of water of Palestinians, led by a rabbi Shlomo Mlma or Mlmad from the Council of Rabbis in the West Bank settlements. A rabbi by that name could not be located, nor is such an organization listed."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_poisoning Pianomanross (talk) 16:53, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not a source and anyway that sentence refers to the current West Bank not the 48 war. Selfstudier (talk) 17:02, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Noting that I just added a line about this to both articles. Levivich (talk) 18:19, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Typhus or typhoid?

Currently the article states that water was poisoned with both typhus and typhoid, both pretty clearly referring to the same incidents. These aren't the same disease and only one of them, typhoid, is waterborne. Unfortunately there are sources attesting to both with no recognition of the discrepancy, so I'm not sure how to go about correcting it. The reference here [1] is almost certainly incorrect, doesn't align with the other sources in the article and isn't the only source attesting to biological warfare, so I feel it should just be removed. XeCyranium (talk) 23:22, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see there's been a discussion of this already, my bad for overlooking. It seems the idea was to just adjust the mention of typhus to typhoid, so I'll do that for the article mention. XeCyranium (talk) 23:45, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for fixing this.
Also, from the source you linked:
"The unsigned report, ‘Ittihad Hospital, Acre, 18 July 1948' [...] spoke of ‘a terrible typhoid epidemic’, spread chiefly through the water supply and affecting ‘mainly children and infants’. In fact, typhoid and typhus are different diseases, but the Jews/Israelis, Acre townspeople, and, often, foreigners (British and Red Cross personnel) referred to the Acre outbreak as ‘typhus’. The ‘water-borne’ epidemic generated by the Haganah was, of course, typhoid, but it is possible that the town suffered simultaneously also from cases of typhus, commonly transmitted by lice and fleas."
- IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 23:51, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh shoot I just reverted myself because I thought I had misread the previous discussion and that it supported the wording of "typhus". I don't have access to the source so that passage helps greatly. I'll revert my revert. XeCyranium (talk) 00:20, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

23 March 2024

Alaexis, beyond no consensus, what is your problem with the changes that you reverted? إيان (talk) 23:46, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The new text reads were forcibly expelled from their homes or made to flee, at first by Zionist paramilitaries and after the establishment of the State of Israel, by the Israeli army. It doesn't make sense since "expelling" and "making to flee" is pretty much the same thing, so it's a duplication. The old version ("expelled or fled") is a better summary of the causes of the exodus, see Causes_of_the_1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight#Causes_of_the_first_wave,_December_1947_–_March_1948. Alaexis¿question? 14:35, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1. Wikipedia is not a source.
2. Surely if people were fleeing imminent violence then they were "made to flee", no?
Some sources to support this:
  • "The military commander interpreted Plan Dalet as calling for the expulsion of only the Muslims. To make sure this was done swiftly, he executed several Muslims on the village’s piazza in front of all the villagers, which effectively ‘persuaded’ the rest to flee." -The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
  • "Ben-Gurion was unimpressed. His thoughts were already somewhere else. He was unhappy with the limited scope of the operations: ‘A small reaction [to Arab hostility] does not impress anyone. A destroyed house – nothing. Destroy a neighborhood, and you begin to make an impression!’ He liked the Sa‘sa operation for the way it had ‘caused the Arabs to flee’." -idem
  • "They were forcibly removed by the occupying army or were made to flee to neighboring villages or areas for refuge as a result of military operations" [2]
  • Even Benny Morris says here [3] that "The majority fled or were made to flee."
- IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 15:29, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, regarding your statement that 'expelling' and 'making to flee' are "pretty much the same thing" - I agree, and it's reasonable to speak simply of the Palestinian expulsion, without having to always add "and flight". IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 15:35, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
IOHANNVSVERVS is correct. إيان (talk) 17:55, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is not a source, but the section I've linked contains a number of references to RS. Morris writes as follows about the first wave (December 1947 – March 1948), p. 139
Alaexis¿question? 15:58, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Violently" and other recent edit issues.

...is clear NPOV. No citation provided, and for this to stand, and all expulsions would have had to be violent for this to be described as such. If there were a qualifier ("often violently" or "occasionally violently" backed by a citation, sure), but "violently expelled" is polemical and not remotely neutral or accurate.

As for the causes belli - the recent edit is tendentious and OR and will be reported if preserved without appropriate citation. The rephrasing is not the issue...it is leading and OR and is neither cited nor discussed later in the article. Mistamystery (talk) 05:27, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1. "Not remotely neutral or accurate?" Really?
2. It's not OR just because there is no inline citation... And in what way is it "leading"? I don't know what you mean by that. If it's not discussed later in the article then that is something to be addressed.
- IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 05:39, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a citation for #2 (which I found in a few minutes...) from Benny Morris, 1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War, p. 180:

"As the months passed and the Palestinian Arabs, beefed up by contingents of foreign volunteers, proved incapable of defeating the Yishuv, the Arab leaders began more seriously to contemplate sending in their armies. The events of April 1948—Deir Yassin, Tiberias, Haifa, Jaffa—rattled and focused their minds, and the arrival of tens of thousands of refugees drove home the urgency of direct intervention. By the end of April, they decided to invade."

IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 05:44, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1. Really? Yes. Insisting that the entirety of the expulsions were violent when A) they weren't and B) there is no citation provided is NPOV and agenda pushing. Be specific with citation or keep it general.
2. The citation you provided does not make your point, nor support the sentence you are trying to keep. The quote insists that the Arab league invaded because they Palestinians were failing to defeat the Jewish forces, as well as other factors (including refugees). It also points out that they (Arab countries) were already supporting the Palestinian military cause with soldiers and were failing to have an impact. Mistamystery (talk) 05:51, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding 2: You might want to familiarize yourself with what the reliable sources say about the history you're disputing here. Or you could check the primary source that is the cablegram sent to the UN Secretary General by the Arab League on May 15, which laid out their reasons for intervening in Palestine.
Additionally, it would be more appropriate to add a citation needed tag to content which you are unsure about; the removal of significant content without bringing it up on the talk page should only be done if you're very confident the information is wrong.
The fact that "about 250000–300000 Palestinians fled or were expelled during the 1947–1948 civil war [...] was named as a casus belli for the entry of the Arab League into the country", is a rather basic fact of this history, and I'll remind you that WP:Competence is required. I don't mean to be rude but I do think that removing basic facts first and asking for sources second, rather than the other way around, is disruptive editing.
- IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 08:05, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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