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Dragunov in Mongolia?

The Mongolian military page states that the 'SVD' is used by Mongolia, and its place as a supporter of the Soviet Union would support this, but there is very little evidence- a picture of a Mongolian sniper on SVD.net is all I can find. Is there any other proof?Nototter (talk) 12:24, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What is the malfunction here?

There's no reason to be a wise-ass, "Malik". Your handle may mean King in Arabic, but you're not ruling wikipedia. I'm pointing out (and using this article to do so) that far too many articles on wikipedia are too technical to be of much USE (and isn't the point of the entire exercise making comprehensible information easily available) to the generalist reader?

If YOU and this Kolarka dude want to start your own wiki stuffed the gills with arcane firearms industry jargon, go for it. The rest of us should not have to click fourteen thousand links in order to understand what should be a simple subject: a Soviet sniper rifle!!!

Is that REALLY so hard to understand? Really?!

As I've said before, there are many article in scientific fields--especially pharmacy--that literally require at least a bachelors (a BSPharm or a BS Chem) in order to understand them without spending six hours reading other articles to understand the dense argot used by the experts of a particular field. After all, it's WIKIPEDIA and not EXPERTOPEDIA.

How many different ways do I need to write it before it penetrates the Iron Curtain of smug condescension used by those who've criticized me for daring to point at that this article does NOT effectively reach a general audience and assumes said audience is a fire-arms enthusiast or an ex-Green Beret.

If I really want an in-depth explanation of the exact workings of nearly any firearm you can name, I can always call a cousin of mine in Texas who is an expert in guns--and owns many--and have him explain it to me. But I don't want to, and more importantly, should NOT have to do so everytime I read an article about a gun on wikipedia!!

Wikipedia's mission--as I understand it--is present short, concise encyclopedic articles that quickly explain the basics of the subject at hand and refer those interested--if available--to other sites (or even books) which will go into exhaustive, if not exhausting, detail.

Check out Britannica's on-line edition since many "wikipedians" don't seem to have any idea and how encyclopedia articles should be written.

I've spoken to a friend of mine who served for many years in this country's special forces (and retired recently) and he agrees that many, if not most, of the military firearms articles are clearly written way over the head of the average reader. While I'm a member of the NRA and fervent supporter of the Second Amendment, I haven't fired a gun in nearly thirty years and that was a dinky little .22 (while my Old Man and his buddies were skeet shooting with the 12 gauges).

Why should I be penalized because I've spent my time becoming learned in subjects other than the arcana of fire-arms? And no, I do NOT understand WHY a slotted flash supressor is or isn't superior to a non-slotted one. And I shouldn't be sniped at because I don't and say that I don't. And there's no way I'm the only one who feels this way.

Some individuals seem to think that this article/subject--and this is NOT limited to firearms or even Soviet-made ones--is their own, personal bailiwick and that no one else better have the temerity to even try to suggest change, let alone make it.

This is flat-out ridiculous.

The tag goes back. And...

...it's just that simple.

PainMan (talk) 10:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well you've pretty much proven that your simply here to troll this page, numerous editors have queried you about your motivation and you have failed to respond with any sort of reasoned argument except for a childish "becuz". Continue to vandalize this page and your irrational actions will be reported. Koalorka (talk) 10:24, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

SVD rifle?

Oh come on, this is "ATM machine" levels of redundancy. Just call it "Dragunov Sniper Rifle" again and let's be through with it. That's the most accurate translation, and SVD is too short (and ubiquitous of an acronym...) for a proper article name. MalikCarr (talk) 08:41, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"SVD" alone did not work because there's a mathematical term that uses that name is is known primarily through that acronym. Hence the "rifle" suffix. The rifle's name is the SVD, "Dragunov sniper rifle" is just a translation of the of the full, non-abbreviated name. Koalorka (talk) 15:01, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's still redundant. Put rifle in parentheses if you must, ergo the mathematical term can still have first dibs on the unadulterated title listing. At any rate, it would appear previous editors have already debated this topic before just up the page a bit - WP:UE would seem to suggest spelling the name out in English would be the proper recourse.
Either way, this redundancy is offensive to the senses. Let's agree on some kind of article title that doesn't involve repeating ourselves aimlessly. MalikCarr (talk) 11:46, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Addendum: After we sort this business out, the article should probably be updated to mention the recent SVDK variant. Giant 9.3mm soft-points in a semiautomatic package, ouch. MalikCarr (talk) 11:54, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
We've already had the rifle in parenthesis, and that is incorrect according to our naming scheme. Dragunov sniper rifle is also incorrect according to these same guidelines for the same reason the AK-47 article is not called "Kalashnikov automatic rifle model 1949" or the PK the "Kalashnikov machine gun". Koalorka (talk) 01:41, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
...AK-47 is just called AK-47 (as is RPK, AK-74, DShK, etc...). Which I find somewhat silly considering the vast majority of Kalashnikov-pattern rifles are AKMs, but whatever. Anyway, I'm not going to let the excuse of bureaucracy with the wikiproject get in the way. Just because it makes sense to use it on other articles doesn't mean we should not make exceptions in places where it is obviously incorrect from a grammatical perspective. It's -still- redundant, and we should not abide that. It makes our firearms articles look like they were written by people whose experience consists of seeing it in a video game or movie and thinking it looks cool, which is insulting to the editors who have worked long and hard on producing quality articles for them. MalikCarr (talk) 18:03, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Addendum: I should also make note that even this is highly inconsistent - aside from the PK and TT-33, practically every other Combloc weapon article either gives us a translated name or a full acronym with nothing else attached. I would again like to point a finger at WP:UE, but if we're going for consistency at the least, this ought to get rifle tacked back on in parentheses. MalikCarr (talk) 18:09, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reopening this

The assertion that SVD (rifle) is "incorrect according to our naming scheme" is false. No source refers to the weapon as the "SVD rifle". It is generally referred to as the "SVD". As SVD is unavailable, the qualifier is correctly placed in parentheses. I'm going to move the article back over to the parenthesised title unless a better one is chosen - I don't see anything wrong with "Dragunov sniper rifle" as a transliterated version of the official title either, but it's less commonly used than SVD. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:05, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'd have to agree, the "V" in SVD already specifies that we're dealing with a rifle, so the parenthesis would likely work best. Dragunov sniper rifle is a direct translation and that's a slippery slope with nomenclature. Koalorka (talk) 14:25, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Whether it's a "slippery slope" or not isn't covered by WP:ENGLISH: out only concern is whether there is another name by which it is already generally better-known in English. But either one will do. I'll make the move. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 16:06, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Based on what I have learned of Russian firearms nomenclature, and given the fact that Soviet weapons engineers Simonov and Tokarev had successfully developed self-loading rifles for the 7.62x54R cartridge prior to the subject of this Article, I believe the alternative long form for "SVD," viz., "Sniper rifle, system Dragunov, model of 1963" (Снайперская винтовка системы Драгунова образца 1963), would have been "Self-loading Rifle, system Dragunov, model of 1963" (Самозарядьная винтовка системы Драгунова образца 1963) rather than the "Semiautomatic Rifle ..." (Полуавтоматическая винтовка ...) listed in the Article preamble as of this Edit. The actual acronym "SVD" might be best used for a Disambiguation Article, as it applies to multiple subject titles. B. C. Schmerker (talk) 04:57, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed link for "Simonov." B. C. Schmerker (talk) 07:20, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Who keeps changing the title of above the picture at the top of this articial to " SVD rifle"?

the correct way of the name is " SVD DM Rifle" or " Dragunov Designated Marksman Rifle" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rifleman77 (talk • contribs) 23:35, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh really? And who says so? Koalorka (talk) 00:36, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with koalorka, where on the Izhmash web site does it say anything about SVD DM? I believe the role of the person who uses the rifle can be considered a "designated marksman" but the SVD does not have that official title. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.8.26 (talk) 08:31, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Official full name is "7.62-mm Dragunov sniper rifle (SVD)". Source - military field manual.69.141.140.192 (talk) 14:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

SVD in Popular Culture?

Or something simmilar? Like a SVD is used in many films, Such as Battle Royale 2? NekoKiyo (talk) 20:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No chance. Koalorka (talk) 00:34, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The weapon is also prominently featured throughout the Metal Gear Solid video game franchise as the typical sniper weapon. Nolte (talk) 10:03, 15 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I just saw a reversion that had been done regarding something similar to this subject line. Someone added a section for the "Golden Dragonuv." I'm a huge fan of guns and video games, but I think from the article perspective, including those items in a subsection would be an unjust perspective on the article of the firearm. Now, if you were to include the "Dragonuv" into the respective popular culture item and link from there, that might prove to be a better link.

I mean imagine adding a Popular Culture section for the M1911, M-16, or AK-47? Those could probably be separate articles in and of themselves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aneah (talk • contribs) 02:48, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Iraq produces licensed copy?

The article now says, "Licensed production of the rifle was established in ... Iraq (as the Al Kadesiah)."

How would anyone know if Iraq obtained a license to manufacture the SVD from Izhmash in Russia? And since the Al-Kadesiah has not one single part that interchanges with an SVD, how could anyone claim it's a licensed copy at all?

Noted. Will fix that. Koalorka (talk) 13:31, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Dragunov SVD

I propose we move thsi article to Dragunov SVD per the naming conventions:

Naming it like this would also eliminate the need for the undesirable disambiguator. What do you think?--Pattont/c 18:45, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'd have to disagree, we've had this exact discussion before if you browse through the archive. SVD Dragunov makes no sense whatsoever because you're repeating the designer name which is the "D" in SVD, thus ending up with "Dragunov Sniper Rifle Dragunov". Koalorka (talk) 19:05, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's true, but there's also at least two Avon Rivers in existence, and "Avon" is an Olde Englishe word which means "River", yet no-one has much of a problem with that. The thing is, in general use, people tend to refer to the "Dragunov" rifle, not the "SVD" rifle. The article could be moved to Dragunov Sniper Rifle? Commander Zulu (talk) 14:32, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I would have to strongly disagree with that. That would set a dangerous precedent for other Soviet designs, i.e. "Kalashnikov assault rifle" (AK), "Kalashnikov machine gun" (PK), "Kalashnikov hand-held machine gun" (RPK) etc. Our goal is consistency. Koalorka (talk) 16:15, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The WP:GUNS naming conventions do not supersede the general ones given at WP:NAME; they supplement them. If the weapon is truly known as the "Dragunov Sniper Rifle" more often than anything else in English, that's where the article belongs. The reason this was ruled out in the past was because nobody could actually verify if this was the case. The AK-47 is verifiably known primarily by that name in English sources; there's no slippery slope here, because articles are named by consulting the main guidelines, not by analogy to other articles. I'd argue that both MP5 and MP7 are the correct names for those articles as they're unambiguous, but I haven't the time for that argument right now. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:19, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm convinced now that "Dragunov sniper rifle" would in fact be the best way to go. I've requested the move. Koalorka (talk) 13:33, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

About SDV

Very interesting article. But it still lacks some things to point out about this very elegant and original sniper rifle.

One, is that it's maybe the only sniper rifle (made and thinked as sniper rifle) with semi-automatic fire, not as adaption of other rifles but born as sniper

Another, it's still a very light rifle, the lightest of all snipers.

More, it's a sniper rifle that, as usage, it's very different by the western's rifles. It's not meant as very ultra-accurate rifle, for special forces alone; it's a combat rifle, and almost all platoons had one sniper with SDV in the WP times. When DDR arsenal was numbered, the SDVs found were almost 2.000! SDV is so a first line weapon, meant to be a longer range support compared to AKs. This fact means that this rifle is: lighter, less accurate and more economic than a western sniper rifle. It has even a bayonet host! Only the latest version has no provision for it. This explains how this weapon born: as combat rifle with longer range than usual. Soviets liked atleast from WWII snipers and scattered them at the minimal level in the infantry: everywhere there was a platoon there was a sniper with SDV. In Afghanistan this number was even increased to fight with enemy snipers. Chinese version has a bayonet-knife, useful even to cut wires. So, without these specifications it's hard to understand why and how SDV born. It was meant to be a cheap, reliable, first line combat rifle, often for conscript's hands. Nothing that resembles Accuracy International or so, but rather the USMC traditions (with a widespread employ of snipers as well). --Stefanomencarelli (talk) 12:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Vietnam War?

The info box mentions the SVD was used during the Vietnam War. If so (which I don't think it was), it should be sourced.--172.191.136.215 (talk) 22:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I found and added a citation for that claim. ROG5728 (talk) 23:04, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not really sure about that source. It basically mentions Vietnam in passing; no proof, no dates, no places. There are too many people (and video game developers) that seem to think that just because North Vietnam was a client-state of the Soviet Union that any weapon of the right vintage was sent off there for use. That's not to say it wasn't possible that it saw use, but where are the bring-backs? Where are the photos of GIs or Marines posing with captured examples? How about an actual book as a source?--172.190.46.68 (talk) 03:57, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, ROG5728, if I came across to harshly in the above comment. It is the three year anniversary of my left testicle being bitten off by Doris Roberts (yes, that Doris Roberts) during our lovemaking and I'm in a foul mood. For what it's worth, the book Vietnam Weapons Handbook by David Rosser-Owen does mention the SVD's use during the latter stages of the war. Unfortunately, the rest of the book is so riddled with errors that I'm left unconvinced of the book's value as a source. As a final note, some of what I've written here may not be entirely true.--172.190.213.104 (talk) 05:19, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rate of Fire

I added the rate of fire with 30 shots/minute. Source: a book called "Waffentechnik Band 1" an official book of the Austrian Army published by the ministry of defence. --83.215.59.99 (talk) 17:51, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The book needs to be cited in the article as a source. You can do that by following one of the citation templates. ROG5728 (talk) 21:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

changed (SVD) to Dragunov SVD

for accuracy purposes Uncle Soprano (talk) 02:13, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Romanian use or manufacture is a myth

Romania did not built this weapon under license. This is a common myth. The Romanian Army only used the PSL rifle, which is not a Dragunov, it only looks like it. Internally, the PSL is roughly based on AK-47 and RPK, no single part is interchangeable between these weapons. In fact, you can see that only Western authors made this statement. I've seen books as recent as 2010 which still claim that the PSL is a local variant of the Dragunov. Romania should be deleted from the users. --Mircea87 (talk) 12:57, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

7.62x54 is incorrect?

The Drugunov that I have is chambered 7.62x65 just like the Norma Magnum I have. The 7.62x54 is a NATO round, the Soviets were never part of NATO. Why would they use a NATO round in their flagship sniper rifle? Russia to this day is still not a member of NATO. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.121.232.234 (talk) 21:50, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

7.62×54mmR is a very old Russian/Soviet round, used in Mosin Nagant, DP, SVT-40, and numerous other weapons - among them SVD. You must be confusing it with 7.62×51mm NATO. 50.46.154.47 (talk) 11:37, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

English Transliteration of PVD

As mentioned in the introduction, the SVD was originally known as the PVD, and knowing Russian phonetics, that would be "Poluavtomatycheskaya Vintovka Dragunova". Since the transliteration of SVD is included, do you guys think it would be a good idea to mention the transliteration of PVD as well?

99.244.66.216 (talk) 02:28, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Dragunov rifle was never called PVD. From it's introduction in 1963 is was known as SVD. --Историк2010 (talk) 22:36, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Which is consistent with what I understand of Russian firearms nomenclature; "half-automatic rifle" is nonstandard and eaasily confused with the terms for pistols other than revolvers and machine guns. "Self-loading Rifle, system Dragunov, model of 1963" (Самозарядьная винтовка системы Драгунова образца 1963 года) would be the alternate name, as I noted in Subsection "SVD rifle?: Reopening this," above. B. C. Schmerker (talk) 21:12, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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"Sniper rifle"

The beginning of this article says the SVD is a sniper rifle. It was developed as a DMR, and has 2 moa... it is definitely not a sniper rifle. Hell, the article even contradicts itself. Later down it says "The Dragunov is an original rifle design for several reasons. First, it was not meant for highly trained and specialized sniper teams, but rather for designated marksmen." That entire paragraph is a mess and interchangeably uses the terms "sniper" and "designated marksman". These are extremely different roles in the military

So yeah someone should probably update this article to be more accurate. If nobody has any argument against this I'll probably update it in a month.24.194.186.225 (talk) 05:01, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:07, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The "SVD-63" designation is nonsensical

The designation "SVD-63" is fictitious. It doesn't exist in Russian (it's always been SVD / СВД, no numbers), IZHMASH/Kalashnikov Concern never referred to it as anything but "SVD," there are no credible sources to suggest it's been used that way by the West as with "AK-47" for the AK, and precisely none of the other language versions of this article use "SVD-63" in their title - it is always an equivalent of "Dragunov sniper rifle" or "SVD" but never "SVD-63". Why is "SVD-63" the page title? What was the rationale for choosing this fictional designation? Why is it prominently used in the opening paragraphs like that's the weapon's actual name? What sources does "KnowledgeableHrvatica," whoever they are, have to back up the apparently unilateral decision to rename the article? The article title should be moved back to "Dragunov sniper rifle" or to "SVD (rifle)." I would do it myself if this platform had any level of care for people who can't or don't wish to create an account, and I have no interest in doing so. If you're thinking of arguing that titling the article "SVD (rifle)" would make it redundant due to the letter "V" already implying it is a rifle, let me point out that only someone familiar with firearms and the Russian language would know that. "SVD (rifle)" has parentheses, the purpose of which is to differentiate the article from the other subjects on Wikipedia that are also called "SVD." Arguing about redundancy is frivolous and choosing a fictitious designation in its place is even more ridiculous. 176.154.184.23 (talk) 21:26, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 18 August 2022

SVD-63 → Dragunov sniper rifle – Per WP:COMMONNAME, on account of the fact that "SVD-63" appears to be a made-up designation that does not appear in any of the sources. Loafiewa (talk) 23:02, 18 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 02:35, 26 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 16:51, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you. VSS Vintorez and AS Val may also need the same treatment. The original articles were merged for no particular reason. 176.154.184.23 (talk) 00:11, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I was the one who merged the VSS and AS pages. The reason for doing so was simply because there was significant overlap between the two pages, as they are mechanically identical and share the same development history. For example, the AK-74 does not need separate pages for its different variants with different buttstocks. KnowledgeableHrvatica (talk) 02:17, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Seconded on AS Val and VSS Vintorez being seperated. If we decide to merge "similar weapons that are mechanically identical" then we may as well merge the pages for Mk 12 Mod 0 SPR and any number of AR-15 platform rifles. Or, merging AKM with AK-74, and so forth. Mechanical similarities does not make the same rifle.
    If they were to be merged, regardless, VSS Vintorez should be the one to take priority, as that rifle was developed initially, however since similar mechanisms doesn't seem to be the precedent on Wikipedia.. 120.16.18.94 (talk) 12:04, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, although SVD (Rifle) may be a better name than "Dragunov Sniper Rifle". KnowledgeableHrvatica (talk) 02:14, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
When I use Google translate from the Russian Dragunov sniper rifle wiki article the lead says; The 7.62 mm Dragunov sniper rifle (SVD, Index GRAU - 6V1) is a Soviet self-loading sniper rifle developed in 1957-1963 by a group of designers led by Evgeny Dragunov and adopted by the Soviet Army on July 3, 1963, together with the PSO- 1. SVD-63 is not mentioned in Wiki Russian. This points to Dragunov sniper rifle and SVD as common designations in the land of origin for this rifle. When I Google SVD-63 not many English results are reported. This designation might be (semi) official and would be parallel to common AK-47, AK-74, etc. small arms designations. I think SVD (Rifle) is a reasonable proposal that avoids sniper or designated marksman rifle discussions.--Francis Flinch (talk) 10:40, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Firearms has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 02:35, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Russia has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 02:35, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Soviet Union has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 02:36, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Per notice from the firearms-board. IMHO a wise choice would be Dragunov SVD sniper rifle. Best Ｔｏｍ (talk) 20:54, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't that be a redundancy similar to 'ATM machine'? Loafiewa (talk) 18:08, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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