:::: I take this issue seriously. When an editor, whether annoying or not, fears retribution from admins that's something to be taken seriously. I wish you had taken it seriously, too.[[User:Coastside|Coastside]] ([[User talk:Coastside|talk]]) 19:52, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
:::: I take this issue seriously. When an editor, whether annoying or not, fears retribution from admins that's something to be taken seriously. I wish you had taken it seriously, too.[[User:Coastside|Coastside]] ([[User talk:Coastside|talk]]) 19:52, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
:::::[[User:Coastside|Coastside]], you have worn out your welcome here. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 20:26, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
:::::[[User:Coastside|Coastside]], you have worn out your welcome here. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 20:26, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
:::::{{ec}} Coastside, I for one appreciate and applaud your sentiment of going to bat for an editor being bullied, and while I cannot speak for him, I think you would find on any other day that Drmies would say so as well. Wikipedia would be a better place if more editors did so, frankly. However, you are on the wrong side of this one. I count seven editors between here and the ANI thread you opened (including myself; six are administrators) who reviewed your complaint faithfully (I presume they did; ''I'' certainly did) and determined that your complaint of admin abuse was in good faith, but not actionable. And while there is perhaps an increased burden of [[WP:ADMINACCT|accountability]] on administrators, that does not extend to being endlessly pestered (some might say [[WP:HARASS|harassed]]) over issues that have been deemed resolved through good-faith discussion. Now, per the comment that Drmies wrote while I was writing this, please go do something else. [[User:Ivanvector|Ivanvector]] (<sup>[[User talk:Ivanvector|Talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ivanvector|Edits]]</sub>) 20:41, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
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Geolocation
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A few questions
Hello. If you don't mind me asking, which "jab" at Andrew were you referring to exactly? Also, I don't see what was condescending about me saying "Uhhh, kind of like Phil reproduced his claims of racism in multiple discussions?", when the person I was talking to had said in the last discussion that no action was needed about Phil because he was just being taken out of context. When he had reproduced his comments in other places, but then told me I should sanctioned for reproducing my comments in other places. Pointing out a counter example and someone's inconsistency is not "condescending." I agreed that I can be sarcastic, that I probably respond to people more then I should, and that said I would work on both. Your characterizing me and my behavior otherwise is frankly a little hurtful and isn't a fair reading of the situation. I also don't think your whole thing about blocking me if there is further incivility is fair, because lots of people are pretty uncivil to me, I should be able to respond without fear of being blocked, and I sometimes I just have bad days. Plus, a lot of the claims of uncivility that people made weren't actually me being uncivil. I don't feel like getting blocked just because I'm sarcastic once and someone takes it out of context or I respond to someone that is being rude to me, who then reports me. Which is mostly what happened there. So, can you elaborate on what you were talking about? --Adamant1 (talk) 18:38, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As for "lots of people are pretty uncivil to me, I should be able to respond without fear of being blocked, and I sometimes I just have bad days"--there is no value in that. You're just saying "if people are mean to me I can be mean back, especially if I'm having a bad day". It doesn't work that way. If you're having a bad day, you should stay away from company. And being insulted, or feeling insulted, is no excuse for insulting. I think you are mistaking "sarcasm" for "condescension", and I think you would be wise to tone it down everywhere, all the time, on good days and bad days. I have no interested in blocking anyone; we don't get paid for blocks. I'd rather see you look at the many comments by experienced users like Ritchie333 and Grandpallama and take them to heart. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 22:08, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Andrew had said several times that he was going to oppose me doing AfDs and specifically targeted me because of them. Plus, he had already "explained" to me what the word college meant in a couple of other AfDs at that point. As if I needed it explained to me anyway. To me, it's pretty condescending to explain what basic words mean to people. Especially multiple times. So, I see zero wrong with my comment about it. It was true that he was trying to get me blocked and he shouldn't have talked down to me about what "college" meant. Period. I'm not connecting people making mean comments to me having bad days. You are. Nor am I saying that I think someone saying mean things to me necessarily justifies a "condescending" response. Which is why I have taken responsibility for my sarcasm. I do think context matters though. I don't think it's fair to put the blame on someone for responding a little harshly to someone who has gone out of their way to talk down to them repeatedly. Especially if they have been repeatedly to stop doing it. Which was the case with Andrew, ToughPigs, SportingFlyer, and a few others who had complained me in the AfD.
That doesn't mean my behavior is 100% solid all the time. I said I could tone it down. I don't think I'm mistaking "sarcasm" for "condescension" though. Your example of me saying "uuhhh" was 100% sarcasm. I say "uuhhh" all the time IRL because I'm a mouth breather and use filler words a lot. In no way is it "condescending" when I do. Rarely is it even sarcastic. I just don't feel like getting blocked for something like that. Especially if the people who are complaining about it are users that I've had repeated problems with and who were unwilling to resolve things civilly when I tried to. Plus, if you or another admin are telling me not to do something, and we fundamentally disagree that I'm doing what your saying I am, then that's an issue. I'm totally fine saying I've been sarcastic and that I could tone it down. I'm not going to accept that I've been condescending though. In no way do I think I'm superior to anyone. As far as Grandpallama goes, he intentionally miss-quoted people a couple of times just to continue arguments and accused me of being "lose with the truth." Which is clearly a lie. I've been pretty honest throughout this. Also, Ritchie333 was called out in several places by multiple users for being bias and retaliatory in relation to me. So, I'm going to take whatever "advice" they supposedly gave me with a grain of salt. I'm fine taking the advice of non-involved admins though. Just as long as it's clear advice. I would nitpick though that "experienced" users make bad calls sometimes. I rather listen to someone based on the strength of their argument. Not how long they have been here. You know, one of the things I've heard a bunch of times on here is how Wikipedia is trying to be more "inclusive." Which I agree with. There seems to be zero mindfulness about being "inclusive" when it comes to the unique ways different people speak in the world. Everything that's not said exactly how certain users think they should be said is "condescension" or "sarcasm", but a lot of the things I say like using the word "garbage" is just how I and the people around me speak. And we tend to be a little more sarcastic about things. It's not a slight though and it doesn't come from a place of condescension. It's just how I, and other people around me, talk IRL. Most of the time it's not even sarcastic. It's just the we use to describe things. Which I see nothing wrong with. --Adamant1 (talk) 23:00, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
OK, so it's other people's fault, is what I still hear. I don't think you can claim that somehow you are being discriminated against; in fact, we are all too inclusive of people who can't drop the snark--if that's how you and the people around you speak. I got a few things to do so I'll be short: if you're in a hole, stop digging. Drmies (talk) 00:42, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That wasn't what my point was. I said several times that I take responsibility for the sarcasm and that I could BLUDGON things less. It seems like your the one being snarky here. Instead of treating this discussion fairly and me like someone who is just trying make sure the same problems don't happen again. It's not like I don't have better things to do myself then relitigate problems or debate how I meant things. Your the one that said I was being condescending and in no way do I think I'm better then anyone. Period. I don't feel like getting blocked because I am being miss-interpreted. That's it. --Adamant1 (talk) 01:25, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Drmies, thanks for the ping and a good close. I suspect between the discussion at AN and the comments here, your advice will unfortunately fall on deaf ears. I ultimately found it too exhausting, and too counterproductive, to continue participating there after the last response to my comments (plus, there is no contest between arguing on Wikipedia on a Halloween weekend vs. turning off the computer to drink spiced cider while you pass out candy and watch the costumed kids romp through the neighborhood). A civility alert sounds like a good idea, especially since genuinely civil editors who receive a civility alert/reminder don't have anything to worry about. :) Grandpallama (talk) 02:29, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it can be exhausting when your accusing people of being liars getting in off topic side arguments. I'd disagree that the ping was a good thing. I should be able to ask an admin a question on their talk page without having to worry that I'm going to get ganged up on by people who clearly have a problem with me. Especially since I wasn't the one that brought you or Ritchie333 up. It's a rather bad faithed way to deal with things. I have zero problem with a civility alert/reminder. What I have problem with is people calling completely innocuous things uncivil. It also seems rather retaliatory when I was more then willing to take responsibility for the sarcasm and said I'd work on it. Any measure taken against a user who admitted to the problem and said they will fix it is not a good way to deal with things IMO. Even if it's just a warning. Especially since there was no consensus for sanctions in the AN. --Adamant1 (talk) 02:44, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Grandpallama: How many AfDs have you been involved in that I have and how many articles that I've edited (or otherwise) have we had disagreements about? (I'll give everyone a hint. Likely zero). --Adamant1 (talk) 02:52, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to give you a completely unsolicited piece of advice, and you would do well to listen to an uninvolved editor, for the first time since you opened the AN thread: Drmies will not appreciate you exporting your bludgeoning to his talkpage. He's already given you an incredibly strong, overt hint with his comment about digging holes. You should embrace having escaped sanctions and move on as quickly as possible. Grandpallama (talk) 03:13, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That sounds slightly condescending and threatening to me. And here I thought we were all against that type of thing. Your the one that decided to join the discussion. So instead of deflecting why not just answer my question? I think it's fair to ask you how many times we have interacted before. Since you were so admit about me getting blocked in the AN and said I have a "shaky relationship with the truth." Which is a big reason why I started this discussion. How many AfDs have we been involved in together and how many articles that I have edited (or not) have we had disagreements or even discussions about? --Adamant1 (talk) 03:27, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's quite simple. 1: Drmies is always right 2: When Drmies is wrong, see 1: Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 12:47, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
User:Ritchie333, you still haven't lost your sense of humor! Thanks for dropping by. Have you started your Sabbath cover band yet, or are you waiting for corona to die down? Drmies (talk) 15:11, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Smithfield
I am feeling rather under the weather so I will not be editing or commenting anymore today. I hope to see you soon at the talk page on Smithfield Foods. Lovelylinda1980 (talk) 01:06, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry to hear that and I hope you are better soon. The editor you need to talk to, though, is the editor who did all that work on the article. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 15:28, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
A beer for me
Many thanks for your post on my talk page. I moved from England to Australia 30 years ago. I am certainly not too old for a beer, but the one thing I really miss from England is real ale. Australian beer is just fizzy rubbish to me, so I mostly drink Australian wine, which is great. I go back to England most years and enjoy real ale with my daughters, but such a visit is sadly not possible at the moment. Enjoy whatever wine or beer that is to your taste. I see that you are an Alabama Crimson Tide fan. I used to visit a colleague in Birmingham at UAB and loved being there. --Bduke (talk) 01:07, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You did? Interesting. The UAB Blazers football team was canceled a few years ago, and then brought back after a popular outcry. I haven't been to Birmingham in a while, though it's only an hour and a half up the road. It's certainly more exciting than Montgomery. Back when I was in college in Tuscaloosa a lot of people were excited about Foster's, mostly because it was different from the regular American swill that was available at the time--before the beer explosion, that is. When we moved to Montgomery anything over 5% was still illegal--crazy. I had a colleague in Birmingham, that is a fellow medievalist: Stephen Glosecki, who died too soon, and not long after a very positive prognosis. We hired someone from their ESL department a few years ago, and I've had at least one student who went there to get a Master's in ESL; their program is, as far as I know, excellent. Thanks for the note: all the best to you and yours, and I hope you get to visit your family soon. I'm more or less in the same boat. Drmies (talk) 15:17, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Something is nagging me
Something is nagging me about the person you mentioned recently here. I can't put my finger on it. If something does click, I will take it to the appropriate venue. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 17:03, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
OK--keep me posted. It doesn't ring any bells for me, but I've been here so long that I may be deaf to bells because they're ringing all the time. Drmies (talk) 17:10, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
On a serious note, I may forget to get your attention specifically, but I assume you watch that appropriate venue I mentioned earlier. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 17:42, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Proposed merger E Ink
Hi Drmies. My name is Carter and I work for E Ink Corporation. I proposed the E Ink Corporation page be merged with E Ink through a formal merger proposal here. I was advised to be bold and merge the pages, but I didn't think editors with a conflict of interest were supposed to be bold. Hoping you might be willing to do the honors of merging the pages. CDaignault1 (talk) 19:09, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Un-protection request
I come to you with the request to un-protect the article on Persia. There are a few citations I need to add there. There are too many topics that are introduced as ambiguous to it and need to disambiguate even if they refer to the same thing, but slightly different in name to different civilizations and even to modern English speakers. I can thank you in advance for anything you can do to help me unlock it.--Persian Lad (talk) 23:24, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You can ask for that at RFPP, but I don't understand the problem: it's "extended-confirmed", for a good reason. The way out here is to get more than 500 edits, which isn't so hard, IMO. Drmies (talk) 17:47, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So 500 edits is needed to edit that and not unprotection? Ok. Thanks to you for clarification.--Persian Lad (talk) 01:26, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Chikadoma Plant
You wrote "whole thing needs to be reviewed by an expert". Well, not to be overly arrogant, I know my African plants. Botanically the entire article is nonsense. The pictures are of 3 different, completely unrelated species - not tree lupine, which does not grow in Nigeria at all. The first two pictures look to me like Boscia senegalensis, and might be more useful there. The botanical text is toe-curlingly incorrect, the sourcing terrible. The common name/title is apparently invented by the seller of the herbal products who is being referenced 20x. There already is an article on Lupinus arboreus. I think the entire article should be deleted, no redirects. Regards, Leo Breman (talk) 15:42, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Leo Breman, I had some doubts and lo, here you are. I'll have a look tomorrow and will get back to you. I appreciate your help. Drmies (talk) 23:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nice one...
I had already looked with concern to Matthew Josef, Bluejosef and Joseroyal. It was lod and clear that this was a cooperating cluster, non-responding whatsoever etc. But I never took real time to start digging into it. It like to thank you sincerely for escorting them out. The Bannertalk 10:24, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It was MER-C who started me on that track, so thank you MER-C! Drmies (talk) 15:09, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Haha, go team! Drmies (talk) 17:42, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nagma
I don't know why you think this version by Intalk is the best one. Instead they were one of those trying to white wash the article and promote some non-RS source. They have removed properly sourced content supported by WP:RS sources like The Telegraph, Outlook, NDTV, etc and replaced it with an obscure non-RS source "NENOW" [1]. They have disruptively changed the birth date of the subject from 1974 to 70 which doesn't match with the inline source that was provided by me. The lead section is puffery ridden now with phrases such as "..such as blockbuster movie Yalgar; ..She began her acting career in Bollywood and acted in a few of the biggest Bollywood movies and in other language...
The Personal life section is totally unsourced/OR which writes "Nagma remains unmarried till date. In an interview with The Times of India, she said she would get married when she finds the right man.", but the source [2] doesn't mention anything about her personal life.
I have meticulously edited and corrected the "Early life" and "Political career" sections. Now many sentences and sections are unsourced/original researchesthanks to removal of RS sources like this by Intalkhere. The last stable version was this. The only thing contentious is the controversy section, which can be discussed and dealt with separately. I believe we should restore it to this and then start from there. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 08:10, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You can take all that up on the talk page. I think you do know why I chose that one: first of all, administrators always protect the wrong version, as if the Good Lord has a sense of humor, and secondly, because of the BLP: I believe, and I am not the only one, that this content is problematic. All of that can be hammered out on the talk page--not here. If your edits were meticulous and well-verified, that will be made apparent there. But when I'm seeing so much "alleged" material, my BLP alarm goes off. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 16:06, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously the "controversy" section was contentious, but teh current version has a lot of ORs, unsourced additions, etc. I'll take it to the talk page. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:17, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What I'm doing there
Hey- I saw you were looking at my Taiwan edits. I know what you are thinking- why should Wikipedia have a bajillionmillion cites on the Cianjin page?
You wrote, "It is totally unclear what you are doing--adding a thousand references for a geographical./administrative name?"
In fact, I tried to answer the question you are asking before you even asked it. In the actual edit you removed, I wrote:
"Per WP:OVERCITE, "If there is a good reason to keep multiple citations, for example, to avoid perennial edit warring or because the sources offer a range of beneficial information, clutter may be avoided by merging the citations into a single footnote." Hence this bundled citation has been created. There is a perennial edit war on this page and others in which Tongyong Pinyin-derived names chosen for use by the local community are changed to Hanyu Pinyin-derived names. For example, on this page the following edits have shifted the name from Cianjin to Qianjin over the past decade or more: July 2009March 2010February 2017. On different pages without the protection of these citations, the name gets switched by IPs & c. all the time June 2020August 2020. It may seem like a drastic remedy to add a large number of references here, but it seems clear that multiple sources in combination can demonstrate what Cianjin wants for itself and show that what Cianjin wants is not ignored by the world, bringing a final, conclusive end to the decade-long edit war."
I would like your help in determining exactly to move forward. Let me know if you have a different opinion on this, or can think of a different methodology for stopping the edit war situation, which will continue indefinitely. Thanks! Geographyinitiative (talk) 17:26, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You're citing the Daily Mail, unreliable websites, primary sources. I have no opinion on Taiwanese matters, but I note that the talk page is empty--and those edit summaries were...well, you've been here for 11 years, and I think you should know better. Drmies (talk) 17:30, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sammy Angott pro boxing record
You say it’s silly to put the flagicon in front of locations. Does this mean that I would need to put the distinction of the country in the description of the location or are you just saying that it shouldn’t be there at all?
If it’s the latter, then I don’t see what’s stopping you from heading over to Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard, and Floyd Mayweather’s records and taking the flagicon off. CaPslOcksBroKEn (talk) 18:21, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hello CaPslOcksBroKEn. What's stopping me from a lot of things is the elementary consideration of food and time and ennui. No, certainly locations don't need flags. They NEVER need flags. Names of countries etc. don't even need links; see WP:OVERLINK. There is no purpose in having a thousand little US flags in a list of boxing results--what purpose does it serve? And imagine if that list were read to a visually-impaired reader--how would they see the forest for the trees? Even purely visually it's already distracting. So yes, please leave those flags out. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 18:25, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I won’t put anymore on Angott’s page, because it would be inconsistent as well as a waste of time to add them back and get in an edit war. For future articles I will consider it, and I can’t make any promises as It’s become a habit after inputing well over a thousand fights throughout Wikipedia. I noticed that you didn’t take out the flagicons for the fighters. Why is that?
Only noticed it today (indeed, my eyesight is not getting any better!), minutes after being reverted by User:GiantSnowman the PAOK fanatic reinstated their storyline. Ah, i see that the "penalties against my team wrongfully given" bit is now sourced...by GREEK newspapers (yes, really "unbiased")!! They also continue to write extensively about the club's career in the manager article, when we have the seasonal club pages (for example 2020–21 PAOK FC season) to do so; their writing is also done in an attempt to belittle the coach, hold grudge much (thank God Pablo García has won all the matches so far, or else!)?
Reverted again, and I am not going to waste one more second engaging in conversation with this user, first time i did so (politely) was told to get a pair of glasses. Have no idea what a person of this caliber is doing here at WP, but to each their own i guess.
Newsflash: i reinstated the Greek refs (that i previously removed, admit it), and called match "controversial". Hey man, at least i'm trying (to reach a compromise)! --Quite A Character (talk) 00:00, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Who is Abel Ferreira anyway? He's hardly my type. I mean, he's got a nice head of hair and all that, and he's probably richer than Croesus, but there is nothing there that makes me say, hey, yeah, what an exciting man to spend some time on... Drmies (talk) 01:31, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
A block is placed, and another. Let's see what the fallout will be. Drmies (talk) 01:44, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
LOL ("nice head of hair")! Regarding your request in the article's edit summaries (the flagicons), i don't think i can accommodate man, i'm as dumb as they come regarding technicalities :(
P.S: bugger, i did not ask for any block, last week happened to me and i felt really frustrated, fortunately the other person was polite and gregarious, let's see how this one fares... --Quite A Character (talk) 03:13, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank god it was not indef (only one week), thanks mate! Let's see how the user fares now. --Quite A Character (talk) 03:24, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I just need you to remove those dumb flags. No, the block was deserved, and there may be a bit more to it--a longer, broader history of disruptive edits, and possibly a sock. Take care, Drmies (talk) 03:42, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I tried, but fucked up real good like you before me :( No worries, i've just contacted table master :@Robby.is.on:, he'll fix it before we can say "14yearseditingthishereencyclopediaandi'mboredoutofmymindbutstillcan'tleavesuchablitheringidiot"... --Quite A Character (talk) 03:59, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding policy on external links. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. The thread is "Russell Islands".The discussion is about the topic Russell Islands.
Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!
I hadn't thought about that, and I wouldn't easily think "POV" and tie it to UNESCO--my concern was notability and secondary sourcing. But I will follow the links and have a look: thank you. Drmies (talk) 22:31, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, Science and technology in Turkmenistan is pretty terrible. If it survives the PROD, I'll see what I can do to improve it. "President Berdimuhammadov is far more committed to science than his predecessor" is indicative of a complete failure to apply WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV. Pinging Francis Schonken, who has showed an interest in these articles before. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:37, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
True, undigested free content (i.e. without at least a basic application of, say, Wikipedia's core content policies) is often problematic, whether or not the source comes from high places such as UNESCO. I was involved in a few of these cases, but some time ago: I can't remember on the spot which pages were involved, but will look it up if helpful. --Francis Schonken (talk) 08:50, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Again, my personal interest here is not so much with the status of those kinds of sources, but with the articles. I see how they are related, yes. Those Sustainable Goals articles, that irritated me. Drmies (talk) 15:24, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So in two months I'll have been domiciled for 20 years in the 86ing capital of the world, where Alphadeltafoxtrot (who has worked in gaming since the Ford administration when Howard Hughes owned his employing facility) uses the verb "to eighty-six" with the specific connotation of telling a human that they are no longer welcome in an establishment one controls. Homicide is expressly not the connotation; if I 86 somebody from my house, it means they are being requested to just go the fudge away. Forever, ideally. Like, you 86 somebody who comes to your house for dinner and you find them swilling the vodka out of your wet bar straight from the bottle while they think everyone is in the kitchen trying to grapple with getting the ham out of the oven. You 86 somebody from your bar who drinks too much and picks fights and sexually grabs people.
Murdering them would be an imprudent overexercise of scarce, costly resources. A 86ed customer just needs to go away and not darken the doorstep any longer. Ditto an 86ed occupant of federal residential property.
I have very little time right now to research UNLV archives for documentation of this fine but critical distinction, but it means enough to me to fight for the reputation of the project, and for you and yours, that I'll do the best I can in the next couple of weeks. (Alternately: If there is a reliable source for this concept anywhere, UNLV probably has it, I have to believe.) - Julietdeltalima(talk) 19:46, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
User:Julietdeltalima, I would have made it to LV this spring had it not been for the COVID--and if I would have overcome my moral scruples about gambling and the environmental footprint of the place; I'm still not sure about it. What has happened in that article is a feedback loop of sorts. Some idiot finds a minor little thingy that says "kill" and the entire right-wing blogosphere jumps on it to make the argument that Whitmer had practically hired an assassination squad, one that made ornaments and sold them on Etsy. And then some medium picks up on it and increases the traction, and then the next one, and all these right-wing editors jump on it, and then the wikilawyering starts, and before you know it we have the most ridiculous article whose only added value above that of a Wiktionary entry is a bunch of hot air that only reinforces how silly this is. Thank you; I hope you can do something with it. Drmies (talk) 22:30, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Report filed at ANI has not yet recieved response
Hello. I recently filed a report at ANI about a user who engages in OR/Syth, edit warring, persistently adds low quality sources (including a non-peer-reviewed preprint), and refuses to engage/discuss (reverting me and completely ignoring my edit summaries trying to explain the problems with their edits). However, the report has been there for a while now, and although two non-admin users have commented (corroborating what I described), no admins have yet and nothing has been done. The user who is the subject of the report has begun to edit again and thus I worry the problem will continue (since they have a tendency to be unresponsive to explanations and to make strange and unfounded accusations). I'm not sure what to do. I am contacting you because I believe it was you who edited the title of my report soon after it was filed. I hope doing so is not inappropriate (is there some one else I should contact? Sould I perhaps re-file the report?) Here is a link to my report:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#USER:Toltol15_making_WP:OR_edits_and_edits_using_low_quality_sources,_ignoring_edit_notes/edit_wars,_and_refusing_to_engage/discuss
Is there another admin I should perhaps also contact? )I have also left a similar message for administrator User:Doug Weller.) Any help is appreciated. Thank you, Skllagyook (talk) 02:05, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Skllagyook, given that WP:ANI 2.0 was deleted, and I don't know you from Adam, how did you get here? Drmies (talk) 02:19, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps "ANI" is the wrong term. The place I filed the report is at the link I left above. I contacted you because I believe you were the one who initially edited the title of my report, here [[4]] (a tenuous reason I do realize). If it was inapropriate for me to post here I apologize. Should I delete this post? My apologies again.Skllagyook (talk) 02:41, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No apology necessary--but since I'm a bit of a social media whore I'm always interested in where my clicks come from. Drmies (talk) 02:42, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I saw the post and I see why you might have thought of me. Yes, that editor is problematic and I left a comment there. Thank you, and hit that like button. Don't forget to subscribe for more daily content! Drmies (talk) 02:50, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Lol! And thank you very much. Skllagyook (talk) 02:53, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Disappointing behavior for an admin
I'd like to respectfully point out some concerns I have about the way you interacted with a user in the Russell Islands dispute, specifically because you are an admin.
1) In the DRN case, you accused the editor of "pick[ing] a fight with Diannaa". Of course you can use whatever language you like, but as an admin I'd like to suggest you be more respectful of other editors and assume good faith. As an outside observer I believe the editor was having a difficult time understanding User:Diannaa's determination and was pressing the point. To belittle his attempts to pursue his case as "picking a fight" with an admin is frankly inappropriate. Anyone, including an admin can choose to disengage. That's what she ultimately did: she told him to leave her alone and that she wasn't going to change her mind. That's her prerogative. When you belittled his efforts to pursue his concerns in the way you did, you de-legitimize his right to ask questions and to debate. He has a right to do that and as an editor you can disengage - but you shouldn't suggest he's wrong to question someone just because they're considered to be the ultimate authority. He wasn't breaking any policy. He was asking questions and debating. That's what talk pages are for. He doesn't need to salute the admins. It's your option to disengage if you don't like what he has to say. You are an admin, as is Diannaa, and you need to be more tolerant than that.
2) You comment in the DRN case that "the time has come for an uninvolved admin to determine whether NOTHERE applies for this editor" was completely inappropriate. Taking up an issue in a DRN case is every editor's right. It is encouraged as a way to resolve conflict. For you to make a threat like that in a DRN case is chilling. The implication is that by going over your head he can be punished. You think I'm exaggerating? This editor left a comment on my talk page expressing concern he was going to suffer retribution and that he might need to back out of the DRN. Maybe that's what you intended by making that remark, but that's not appropriate behavior for an admin. To instill fear in editors that they will suffer retribution for using appropriate channels to resolve conflict is downright damnable for an admin. I can't express that point in stronger terms. No editor, including you, is obligated to participate in a DRN case. If you didn't want to participate, all you had to do was to opt out. If you didn't make a summary statement, I would have closed the case for lack of participation. You chose to participate. And then to make a comment like that as an admin? I know you know that was wrong.
3) In the Russell Islands talk page, after the DRN case was already opened, you made a subsequent comment: "I assume that by now your specious DRN thread is closed." Again, this was an inappropriate comment for an admin to make. First you are accusing him of opening a "specious" DRN case. It's his right to pursue conflict resolution, even with admins. If you don't want to participate, then don't participate. To say a DRN case is "specious" undermines the venue itself. You know better. Furthermore you suggested that the case would be summarily closed when you had already chosen to participate in it. Again, this shows a complete lack of respect for process. The implication is that you know he can't get anywhere by seeking conflict resolution with admins - you know it's going to be closed because you're an admin and he has no recourse. You undermine the venue itself making comments like that. You also undermined my role as a DRN volunteer by suggesting I can't facilitate any meaningful dialog before I even had a chance to do so.
I'm speaking plainly and bluntly, and I hope you recognize my sincerity. We're all human, and we all make mistakes. As an admin, however, I think you have a special responsibility to take care in how you engage with editors, even if their behavior is uncivil (and I don't think he was being uncivil in this case). Moreover, you set an example for others to follow. That is critical for admins - other editors learn from your behavior. You should be setting a high bar. To undermine venues for conflict resolution and to threaten editors publicly as you did was disturbing to witness. I have been an editor in Wikipedia for a very long time, and I care about the community. Your thoughtless behavior as an admin diminishes the platform. You can do better. Coastside (talk) 08:06, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker) I'll belittle User:Geographyinitiative's efforts to pursue his concerns too: they amounted to picking a fight with Diannaa. I will also belittle your own efforts to frame Drmies's calling the DRN "specious" as implying "you know it's going to be closed because you're an admin and he has no recourse". That's a very far-fetched "implication", and so much assumption of bad faith is disappointing behavior for a DRN volunteer. Bishonen | tålk 12:24, 13 November 2020 (UTC).[reply]
What a mighty high horse you have, Coastside. JehochmanTalk 13:08, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Coastside, "you can do better"--if you're going to be respectful, as your first word suggests, don't end patronizingly. Your first words and your last words can't both be true. I see that in your sporadic editing career you have participated in six DRN discussions. That's great, but I doubt it gives you the moral ground to chastise Diannaa in that closing statement of yours for missing out on a "teaching moment", when it is obvious from Talk:Russell Islands that Geographyinitiative had already been offered a few teaching moments and turned them down. And instead of leaving her a templated "friendly reminder", you had have written a note with your own words. Or, of course, you could have seen her earlier comments on that talk page and drawn the more appropriate conclusion, that there was no dispute here that needed resolution, because it was simply a matter of correct vs. incorrect. So I hope you'll forgive me for not taking all your comments here to heart. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 15:47, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
To me, your response shows you aren't take my complaint seriously. This isn't about the DRN case or my ability or lack thereof to handle it appropriately. This is about your inappropriate behavior as an admin. I opened an ANI case for admin abuse.
Haha, in the section above is a redlink to the old WP:ANI 2.0. It's been a while since I've been dragged to ANI by someone who was not a sock of WDHB. It's almost exciting. Drmies (talk) 16:50, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's been a while that I have been dragged to ANI, and I don't miss a thing. Enjoy the trip if you can. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:57, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Coastside, you really try to be taken seriously, don't you? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:37, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I take this issue seriously. When an editor, whether annoying or not, fears retribution from admins that's something to be taken seriously. I wish you had taken it seriously, too.Coastside (talk) 19:52, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Coastside, you have worn out your welcome here. Drmies (talk) 20:26, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Coastside, I for one appreciate and applaud your sentiment of going to bat for an editor being bullied, and while I cannot speak for him, I think you would find on any other day that Drmies would say so as well. Wikipedia would be a better place if more editors did so, frankly. However, you are on the wrong side of this one. I count seven editors between here and the ANI thread you opened (including myself; six are administrators) who reviewed your complaint faithfully (I presume they did; I certainly did) and determined that your complaint of admin abuse was in good faith, but not actionable. And while there is perhaps an increased burden of accountability on administrators, that does not extend to being endlessly pestered (some might say harassed) over issues that have been deemed resolved through good-faith discussion. Now, per the comment that Drmies wrote while I was writing this, please go do something else. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:41, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You're an academic, does this read right to you? Doug Wellertalk 10:49, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It reads fluffy...and it needs a bunch of rewriting, pruning those quotes and all that. But rewriting this and sourcing it better shouldn't be hard for a person with such public exposure. Sorry, gotta run... Drmies (talk) 14:53, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Notice of Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents discussion
Berrely your post is a bit of "Department of Redundancy Department" red tape as Drmies had already been made aware of the ANI thread above. MarnetteD|Talk 17:58, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. Don't know if out of sarcasm or not (assuming good faith? After nearly 15 years, i'm well past that stage), but this person thanked me for an edit i performed in the aforementioned article. Regards, keep it up --Quite A Character (talk) 18:24, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Wrote them another polite message, let's see if i don't regret this! --Quite A Character (talk) 18:36, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 17:39, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at ANI regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Complaint_by_Coastside. Thank you. Coastside (talk) 16:38, 13 November 2020 (UTC) [Updated link] 17:24, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Instance of admin abuse by Drmies. Thank you. — Yours, Berrely • Talk∕Contribs 16:36, 13 November 2020 (UTC)