Talk:Susie Boniface

Personal life/abuse claims - lock under provisions of WP:BLP

I got a phone call from the article subject raising serious WP:BLP concerns about the claim of abuse, and that the sources don't support the claims at all - that this is not at all supported well enough to say in wiki voice. I've deleted the claim, and locked the article for now as a precaution under WP:BLP. I'm waiting on an email from the subject, and I'll be putting stuff about this on WP:BLPN shortly - David Gerard (talk) 10:37, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Now up at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Susie_Boniface - David Gerard (talk) 11:30, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

There appear to be coordinated off-wiki attacks on the subject, making these claims about her (which I won't link, as obvious BLP violations). As such, I'd strongly suggest leaving indefinite protection on this article under WP:BLP as a precaution, and running all proposed changes through the talk page - David Gerard (talk) 11:05, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

 Note: Disccusion was archived and can be found here. --Breawycker (talk to me!) 01:15, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

David Gerard, this was 3 months ago, and the page remains fully protected, because one editor added some questionable content. Sorry, but this seems like textbook involvement + using admin tools. Please lower the protection. Or seek review of this continued protection by an uninvolved admin. Keeping this indefinitely sysop protected due to 1 editor is contrary to several guidelines. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 22:51, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

this seems like textbook involvement + using admin tools That's quite an allegation, and not one you've substantiated in any way. And it's not how WP:BLP protection works.

Someone proposed removal of the protection, but had notably not proposed any edits they wanted to make at any point, so the proposal failed - see [1] for the discussion as it went. If you wanted to raise the issue on WP:RFPP (or elsewhere) again, that discussion may be relevant for issues any proposal would have to answer. In particular: are there in fact edits you're proposing? - David Gerard (talk) 07:54, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

I would recommend downgrading protection after a couple of useful edit requests have occurred. The comments above about involvement are totally incorrect since the situation was reported at WP:BLPN and the protection upheld at WP:RFPP (links are above). Johnuniq (talk) 09:24, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. David Gerard can you confirm if this protection is a DS action, so people know what the appropriate venue for appeal is? If not DS, Wugapodes suggested AN is the correct venue, is this also your view? This protection is, in my view, ridiculous. Of all the non-redirect indef protected pages we have, of which there are only 3 articles (1 is technically temp for dispute). Of the remaining 2, they're both protected for BLP violations. Those two are this, and Kiwi Farms. Kiwi Farms isn't even a biography, but multiple admins were involved, and multiple users were committing BLP violations, and ECP was tried first, thus clearly a good protection. This article, however, literally the only actual BLP indef protected across this entire wiki, is a case where one individual entered in problematic content (not, relatively speaking to other BLP violations, the most egregious kind), they show no indication they will do it again, ECP was not tried, there are no other violators, nor any indication that there will be, and the enforcing admin was one contacted by the living person to have material removed. You have a range of other tools, including pblocks, ECP protection and DS. You chose to use none, for some reason. You cannot honestly say this is not an abnormal protection. This is a start class article, and it's well known that requiring edit requests does not facilitate article improvements, so that premise is not helpful imo. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 12:39, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

To answer your question re content, although not really relevant to the unprotection, sure, there's plenty of stuff I can find that can be discussed. There's reviews on her book not really discussed here[2][3], none of which are discussed here. Her newspaper contributions can be expanded on, and actually sourced reliably, incl guest writing. Judging an awards ceremony[4], etc. Article is woefully undeveloped. I'm not going to dispute if your protection was appropriate at that time. I do think temp protection would've been better, or simply a single revert and a BLPN discussion + questioning (as in the BLPN discussion the person didn't indicate they were going to restore those violations). But I trust you know protection policy and made the right call at the time. The point is that it shouldn't be protected now, and I trust that you can see that and will unprotect this yourself. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 13:23, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Indignation has its place but an edit request would be more productive. Johnuniq (talk) 23:48, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Johnuniq, I am surprised you're in support of this protection, as (from what I've seen) you tend to support low barriers to editing. Anyway, I'd greatly appreciate if the protecting admin could promptly address my concerns and, in light of them, explain their rationale for continued protection, per WP:ADMINACCT, as they didn't do this last time. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 00:56, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

The above is an answer, it's just not one you like. Perhaps don't start from completely baseless claims of malfeasance? Also, if your aim really is for edits to happen, then that's two of us pointing out that well-formed edit requests would be a more productive initial approach. Failing that, there are multiple applicable boards for broader discussion, if you are this sure that opening the article is the right move - David Gerard (talk) 06:57, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

It is not an answer. I asked you, per WP:ADMINACCT to expand on your admin actions you’ve already taken, not for advice on what further steps I may take. You haven't addressed the reason for the protection, particularly in light of my raised concern in that this is the only such protected BLP on this entire wiki. You've instead stated I should make an edit request instead. That's not a response per ADMINACCT, neither is that advice mentioned or suggested anywhere on WP:PROTECT or RFPP, nor would it be a valid excuse to keep protection unnecessarily high. The onus isn't really on me here. I don't mind taking it to a noticeboard, but I think it's far more productive to work something out here than chuck it onto such a noticeboard for a period of drama. Since the BLPN is archived and RFPP was procedurally closed and advised AN, that would be the venue I presume, but I do still think you're somewhat able to reason with the situation and attempt a period of ECP protection. Please give it day or two and think about it. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 07:55, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

To reiterate: I see no reason to assume the personal targeting has stopped; and per the WP:RFPP discussion, the next step is to propose specific edits if you want the article edited. This should be a reasonably clear answer. Should WP:RFPP or WP:BLPN or some other suitable board concur otherwise, that'd be fine with me, but I'm not comfortable with removing it unilaterally. I agree with the principle of minimal protection - being as open as possible has given Wikipedia everything that's got us this far - but this case is an example of why WP:BLP has that exception to the principle of minimal protection - David Gerard (talk) 10:16, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer. It's still one I disagree with, but it's an answer. Can I ask why you think personal targeting hasn't stopped (insofar as it extends to Wikipedia), or why you think EC would be ineffective? ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 10:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Requested edit

Wikitext of edit request

{{pp|small=yes}} {{short description|British journalist and author|bot=PearBOT 5}} {{Use dmy dates|date=September 2020}} {{Use British English|date=January 2018}} '''Susie Boniface''' (born {{birth based on age as of date |12|1989|11|9|noage=1|mos=or}}) is a British [[journalist]] and author who has written for several newspapers and uses the [[pseudonym]] '''Fleet Street Fox''' in her ''[[Daily Mirror]]'' column and on [[Twitter]]. She used the name Lillys Miles while writing an anonymous blog, but revealed her identity when her book ''Diaries of a Fleet Street Fox'' was published in 2013. == Early life == Susie Boniface was born in {{birth based on age as of date |42|2019|3|6|noage=1|mos=or}}. She became interested in journalism after in 1989 [[Fall of the Berlin Wall|fall of the Berlin War]] and then reading ''Bluff Your Way in Journalism'' (1988) by Nigel Foster.<ref name="Mayhew2019">{{Cite web|last=Mayhew|first=Freddy|date=6 March 2019|title=Fleet Street Fox rewrites journalism history in new bluffer's guide to industry|url=https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/fleet-street-fox-rewrites-journalism-history-in-new-bluffers-guide-to-industry/|url-status=live|access-date=16 September 2020|website=Press Gazette|language=en-US}}</ref> == Career == At age of 18, Boniface became a reporter at the ''[[Kent and Sussex Courier]]''.<ref name="Mayhew2019" /> She later worked at the ''[[Plymouth Herald]]'' as defence reporter.<ref>{{Cite news|date=12 February 2013|title=Fleet Street Fox is former Plymouth Herald reporter Susie Boniface|work=The Herald|location=[[Plymouth]]|url=http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Fleet-Street-Fox-Plymouth-Herald-reporter-Susie/story-18125001-detail/story.html|url-status=live|access-date=15 September 2020|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150924074727/http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Fleet-Street-Fox-Plymouth-Herald-reporter-Susie/story-18125001-detail/story.html|archive-date=24 September 2015}}</ref> She worked for ''[[The Sun (United Kingdom)|The Sun]]'', the ''[[Daily Mail]]'', ''[[The Guardian]]'' and the [[Press Association]] before joining the ''[[Sunday Mirror]]'', where she worked for ten years,{{Citation needed|date={{subst:CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{subst:CURRENTYEAR}}}} until she volunteered for redundancy in March 2012.<ref>{{Cite web|last=Burrell|first=Ian|date=28 May 2012|title=Ian Burrell: The internet Antichrist who is converting online|url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/opinion/ian-burrell-the-internet-antichrist-who-is-converting-online-evangelists-7792779.html|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=16 September 2020|website=The Independent|language=en}}</ref> Boniface lectured for four years at [[Brunel University]] and in 2016 joined the journalism department as a visiting lecturer at City University London.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/757856617538859009|title=fleetstreetfox on Twitter|publisher=}}</ref>{{Better source needed|date={{subst:CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{subst:CURRENTYEAR}}}} In March 2019, she published the ''[[Bluffer's Guides|Bluffer's Guide to Journalism]]''.<ref name="Mayhew2019" /> === Awards === Boniface was nominated for the 2009 [[British Press Awards]] for her campaign "British Nuclear Test Vets".<ref>[http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/node/43183 Press Gazette British Press Awards 2009: The shortlist] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140203092246/http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/node/43183 |date=3 February 2014 }}. Dominic Ponsford, 25 February 2009</ref> She won third "must follow journo" in the 2011 [[The CRAPPs|CRAPPs]] awards as Fleet Street Fox.<ref>[http://www.sourcewire.com/news/69149/the-crapps-2011-winners-announced- The CRAPPs 2011 – winners announced!] 15 December 2011</ref> Fleet Street Fox won the [[London Press Club]] Blog of the Year in 2013.<ref>[https://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/may/22/jimmy-savile-scandal-scoop-year-press-club BBC Newsnight journalists win award for spiked Jimmy Savile investigation]. Jason Deans 22 May 2013</ref> She was nominated for Columnist of the Year (popular press) in the 2014 [[Society of Editors]] Press Awards.<ref>[http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/sunday-times-leads-way-nominations-announced-society-editors-press-awards Sunday Times leads the way as nominations announced for Society of Editors Press Awards]. Press Gazette 28 February 2014</ref> === Fleet Street Fox === Boniface began her first anonymous blog, now removed, in April 2009 and started tweeting as fleetstreetfox in October 2009.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/statuses/5178923330|title=has it come to this? Is life not inane enough?|date=26 October 2009|work=fleetstreetfox|publisher=Twitter}}</ref> She started a second news-based blog as Fleet Street Fox in 2011.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.fleetstreetfox.com|title=fleet street fox|publisher=}}</ref> She revealed her name in ''The Times'' in 2013<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/life/article3682949.ece|title=Confessions of the woman behind @fleetstreetfox|first=Susie|last=Boniface|date=11 February 2013|work=The Times}}</ref> at the same time as her book was published by [[Constable & Robinson]], though her identity was not a closely kept secret before then;<ref>{{cite news|url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/9865295/Fleet-Street-Fox-anonymity-was-crucial-to-my-freedom.html|title=Fleet Street Fox: anonymity was crucial to my freedom|first=Brooke|last=Magnanti|authorlink=Brooke Magnanti|date=12 February 2013}}</ref> she had been named on Twitter in 2011 by [[Chris Atkins (filmmaker)|Chris Atkins]]<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/scatatkins/statuses/152890965865136128|title=Chris Atkins on Twitter|work=scatatkins|publisher=Twitter}}</ref> and again after a spat with [[Jemima Khan]] in May 2012.<ref>{{cite news|url=https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/esmagazine/revealed-the-secret-twitter-stars-getting-themselves-into-a-web-of-mischief-7733407.html|title=Revealed: The secret Twitter stars getting themselves into a web of mischief|work=Evening Standard|date=11 May 2012|first=Richard|last=Godwin}}</ref><ref>{{cite news|url=http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/02/11/so-susie-boniface-is-fleet-street-fox-what-a-surprise/|title=So Susie Boniface is ‘Fleet Street Fox’: what a surprise|first=Andy|last=McSmith|date=11 February 2013|work=The Independent Blogs|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130214010022/http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/02/11/so-susie-boniface-is-fleet-street-fox-what-a-surprise/|archive-date=14 February 2013|url-status=dead}}</ref> [[Julie Burchill]] praised her blogging in the ''[[British Journalism Review]]'', but said of the book, "Reader, I hated it."<ref>{{cite journal|first=Julie|last=Burchill|url=http://www.bjr.org.uk/data/2013/no2_burchill|title=Not fleet, not foxy, not funny|journal=British Journalism Review|volume=24|issue=2|date=2013|pages=70–71}}</ref> Broadcaster [[Jeremy Vine]] described it as "the first book I've read that starts at 90mph and speeds up".<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.fleetstreetfox.com/p/book.html|title=Books|publisher=}}</ref> == References == {{Reflist}} == External links == * [http://www.susieboniface.com/ personal website] * [http://www.fleetstreetfox.com/ Fleet Street Fox blog] * [http://www.constablerobinson.com/?section=books&book=the_diaries_of_a_fleet_street_fox_9781780336565_paperback The Diaries of a Fleet Street Fox] at [[Constable & Robinson]] * [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-21536399 Meet the Author: Susie Boniface] 21 February 2013, [[Nick Higham]], BBC News * [https://www.mirror.co.uk/authors/susie-boniface/ Susie Boniface], mirror.co.uk * [https://www.mirror.co.uk/authors/fleetstreet-fox/ Fleet Street Fox], mirror.co.uk * [http://www.thelostlectures.com/talk/anonymity-foxs-tale/ Susie Boniface: 'Anonymity: A Fox's Tale'], The Lost Lectures {{Authority control}} {{DEFAULTSORT:Boniface, Susie}} [[Category:English women journalists]] [[Category:English columnists]] [[Category:Daily Mirror people]] [[Category:Living people]] [[Category:People from Kent]] [[Category:Women columnists]] [[Category:1977 births]] [[Category:21st-century British journalists]] [[Category:21st-century English women writers]]

Preview

Susie Boniface (born 1976 or 1977) is a British journalist and author who has written for several newspapers and uses the pseudonym Fleet Street Fox in her Daily Mirror column and on Twitter. She used the name Lillys Miles while writing an anonymous blog, but revealed her identity when her book Diaries of a Fleet Street Fox was published in 2013. Early life Susie Boniface was born in 1976 or 1977. She became interested in journalism after in 1989 fall of the Berlin War and then reading Bluff Your Way in Journalism (1988) by Nigel Foster. Career At age of 18, Boniface became a reporter at the Kent and Sussex Courier. She later worked at the Plymouth Herald as defence reporter. She worked for The Sun, the Daily Mail, The Guardian and the Press Association before joining the Sunday Mirror, where she worked for ten years, until she volunteered for redundancy in March 2012. Boniface lectured for four years at Brunel University and in 2016 joined the journalism department as a visiting lecturer at City University London. In March 2019, she published the Bluffer's Guide to Journalism. Awards Boniface was nominated for the 2009 British Press Awards for her campaign "British Nuclear Test Vets". She won third "must follow journo" in the 2011 CRAPPs awards as Fleet Street Fox. Fleet Street Fox won the London Press Club Blog of the Year in 2013. She was nominated for Columnist of the Year (popular press) in the 2014 Society of Editors Press Awards. Fleet Street Fox Boniface began her first anonymous blog, now removed, in April 2009 and started tweeting as fleetstreetfox in October 2009. She started a second news-based blog as Fleet Street Fox in 2011. She revealed her name in The Times in 2013 at the same time as her book was published by Constable & Robinson, though her identity was not a closely kept secret before then; she had been named on Twitter in 2011 by Chris Atkins and again after a spat with Jemima Khan in May 2012. Julie Burchill praised her blogging in the British Journalism Review, but said of the book, "Reader, I hated it." Broadcaster Jeremy Vine described it as "the first book I've read that starts at 90mph and speeds up". References External links personal website Fleet Street Fox blog The Diaries of a Fleet Street Fox at Constable & Robinson Meet the Author: Susie Boniface 21 February 2013, Nick Higham, BBC News Susie Boniface, mirror.co.uk Fleet Street Fox, mirror.co.uk Susie Boniface: 'Anonymity: A Fox's Tale', The Lost Lectures

The above is the first of many edit requests I will be making to improve the sourcing on this page. As a good faith editor, I should not have to go through all this trouble to edit a page. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 01:23, 16 September 2020 (UTC)