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Welcome to The Wikipedia Adventure!

Hi Rama! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission. I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.

• The Wikipedia Adventure Start Page
• The Wikipedia Adventure Lounge
• The Teahouse new editor help space
• Wikipedia Help pages

-- 20:51, Wednesday, August 3, 2016 (UTC)

Mission 1	Mission 2	Mission 3	Mission 4	Mission 5	Mission 6	Mission 7
Say Hello to the World	An Invitation to Earth	Small Changes, Big Impact	The Neutral Point of View	The Veil of Verifiability	The Civility Code	Looking Good Together

Get Help

About The Wikipedia Adventure | Hang out in the Interstellar Lounge

Demerliac request 24 April

Hi Rama, I have just done Snake. She captured two French privateers, Hirondelle in the Channel in 1799, and Esperance in the West Indies in 1803. Could you please check to see if Demerliac has anything. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:16, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

• Hirondelle: the only one that matches the dates and whose capture is not credited to a different ship is n°1778, p.221, a privateer from Dunkirk under Jean Fresson. I have nothing more on her.
• Espérance: I have no ship that matches this date, sorry.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:55, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi Rama, thanks for looking. At least I could the Jean Fresson info, and cite Demerliac, so that's good. I really expected nothing for Espérance. Again, not in the Channel. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:54, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Now Hirondelle seems to be under both Pierre Merie Dugerdin and Jean Fresson, that sounds like at least one is incorrect. I'll have another look, maybe Demerliac could have miscredited the capture to another ship. Cheers! Rama (talk) 04:46, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 6 May

Hi Rama, I have just completed the article Boyne (1787 ship). The French privateer Fraternite captured her around June 1794. Does Demerliac have anything? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:03, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

the only Fraternité I have that matches the dates is a naval Naïade-class brig-corvette (n°431, p.76), not a privateer. The description seems to match, notably the 12 18-pounders. I'll have a look in Roche if you think that this is a likely candidate.

Cheers ! Rama (talk) 16:45, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Interesting. Let me look at my Winfield and Roberts when I get home. If the naval brig-corvette is likely we can push a little further. The one thing that is curious is the size of the crew, which is more consistent with a privateer than a naval vessel. Of course, she may have been a naval vessel on loan to privateers. Thanks for the lead.Acad Ronin (talk) 17:37, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

True, but the armament sounds quite heavy for a privateer — or indeed even for a warship that size, don't you think? Perhaps one of these innovative designs the French were fielding at the time? Rama (talk) 20:20, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

I checked her out in Winfield and Roberts and I withdraw my objections. That book gives the manning for a vessel of her class as 187 men, so no issue there. I will add her to my list of vessels to write about. She seems to have had a limited career so that should be relatively straightforward. I'll let you know when I have done so and we can check Roche then. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 22:30, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 19 May

Hi Rama, Does Demerliac have anything on a French privateer named Telemachus, which captured Lascelles in 1813? Also, does he have anything on the lugger Telemachus/Telemaque that the Hired armed lugger Speedwell captured in 1797? For that matter, does he have anything on any of the privateers that Speedwell captured. Thanks and good hunting. Acad Ronin (talk) 11:59, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

Télémaque, a privateer commissioned in Dunkirk in October 1812 under Captain Jacques-Joseph Calcius, with 55 men and 14 pieces (8 guns and 6 carronnades). Decommissioned in Dieppe in May 1813 (N°1646, p.236).

Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:26, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, the other Télémaque: privateer commissioned in Granville in 1797 under Thomas Yon (N°2026, p.241, nothing more about her) Rama (talk) 17:29, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Implemented. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 17:57, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 6 June

Hi Rama, I have just finished Sulivan (1782 EIC ship). Under Action with a French privateer (1799) I describe an engagement between the merchantman Washington (ex-Sulivan), and a French privateer frigate Bellone. I suspect that this is the vessel that became HMS Bellona, but the article on Bellona does not go back into the late 1790s. Does our friend have anything? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:46, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

the only Bellone matching the dates and type is indeed this one, which was launched in 1797 in Bordeaux. Demerliac states that she was commissioned in November 1799, but there might have been more to this. She was under one Pierre or Michel Destebetcho, with 220 men, 24 8-pounders and 6 36-pounder obusiers. (n°2237, p.282 of 1800-1815)

Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:40, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Good info. I am in London w/bad wifi access so it took me longer than usual to implement but the info is now in. A couple more pieces of the Great Puzzle are now linked. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:16, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 30 June

Hi Rama, I am now back at home and have just finished Wilding. In 1795 she engaged a French privateer that blew up with the loss of all aboard. As a result there is no English record of her name. Then in 1798 the French privateer Duguay Trouin captured Wilding. We have a mention of Duguay Trouin in the article Duguay-Trouin (French privateer), but I was wondering if Demerliac has anything that we could add to both articles. Lastly, the French Navy briefly employed Wilding as a transport in 1798 and here too I wonder if Demerliac has anything to add. Thanks for the help. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:36, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Wilding: captured merchantman commissioned as a transport in 1798, pierced for 14. Retaken by HMS Spitfire in December 1798 (n°1364, p. 185 of 1792-1799).

Roche does not list her. Cheers! Rama (talk)

Thanks. I have added the Demerliac ref. even though it has no additional info. It provides some support, even though I suspect that he got all his info from English sources.Acad Ronin (talk) 23:40, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

yes, that is my guess as well, sorry not to bring anything new to what you already had. Rama (talk) 11:07, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 1 July

Hi Rama, I have just finished the stubby article HMS Utile. She was the French privateer Utile, launched in 1799 and I was wondering if Demerliac had anything on her. Thanks, and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:29, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

Utile, privateer operating in the Channel from unkown home port, circa 250 tons, 16 to 18 guns. Captured by HMS Boadicea etc. Capsized in the Mediterranean and lost with all hands in November 1811. Plans recreated by the British and available at Greenwich National Maritime Museum (n°2156, p.251 of 1792-1799).

Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:56, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks here too, though again there is almost nothing new.Acad Ronin (talk) 23:43, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 2 July

I have just finished HM hired armed cutter Duchess of York. Here there are three French privateers mentioned: Honfleur, Dorade, and Vigoreaux. Maybe we will have better luck this time. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:43, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

• Honfleur: I do not have any Honfleur in my records
• Dorade: no ship by that name in the correct time frame
• Vigoureux: I have a Vigoureux from an unknown home port, commissioned in 1799, and captured by HMS Camilla on 29 January (n°3110, p.324), nothing more on her I am afraid (but we have her correct name at least)

Cheers! Rama (talk) 05:36, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I have added the commissioning year. At least it gives me an excuse to put in the Demerliac reference. Acad Ronin (talk) 11:48, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 5 July

I have just finished the East Indiaman Union. On 22 August 1804 she captured the French privateer Venus of 16 guns and 73 men. Does Demerliac have anything on Venus? regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:48, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

Vénus, brig built in Nantes in 1799-1800 and commissioned as a privateer in August 1803, pierced for 16. Cruise under a Captain Hamon (i'll have to check if there is a relation) with 83 to 173 men and 10 4-pounders, 2 2-pounders and 2 8-pounder carronnades. Captured on 22 August 1804 by Union and Sir William Pulteney (n°2188, p.278)

Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:58, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Ha. Success. Could you please verify the armament? Were the 2-pounders actually 12-pounders, and were the 8-pounders carronades? When captured had 12 & 8-pounders, and 8-pounders, as you particularly know, tended to be guns. Was Hamon the captain on her 1803 cruise? Lastly, I assume the Demerliac is the 1800-1815 book? Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:22, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello, yes, 1800-1815. I confirm that Demerliac writes 2-pounders and 8-pounder carronades, but it is not beyond him to make mistakes, and a 2-pounder would be a swivel gun so I am not sure that this makes sense. Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:18, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

So, could well be typos, or errors in transcription. I will treat the Demerliac data as questionable. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:07, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Typos, I think not: Demerliac uses the convention "16 viii" for "16 8-pounders", and here we have "2 ii"; this could easily be due to a misreading of the historic lists, for instance. Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:20, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Ugh, Demerliac could as easily have mistyped an "x" as he would a "1". Please ignore the mad ravings of an insufficiently coffeined mind above. Rama (talk) 07:09, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

No worries. Acad Ronin (talk) 08:07, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Troude and Demerliac requests 9 July

Hi Rama, 1) I have just finished HMS Spy (1804). In 1812 the French frigate Gloire captured her and released her the same day as a cartel. Does Troude have anything? 2) I am working on an article about HMS Eugenie (1797), which was the privateer Nouvelle Eugenie that HMS Indefatigable (1784) captured on 19 May 1797. Does Demerliac have anything on Nouvelle Eugenie? Thanks & regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:04, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

Spy: Troude does have an entry for Gloire, but Spy is not mentioned.

Nouvelle Eugénie: 200-ton privateer brig built in Nantes from 1796 to early 1797 and commissioned in 1797. She sailed for her first cruise under Joachim Barbier, with 120 men. Captured by HMS Indefatigable on 11 May 1797 and recommissioned as HMS Eugenia with 90 men and 16 6-pounders. Sold in 1802, plans reconstituted by the British and available at Greenwich. (n°2259, p. 260) Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Too bad about Troude, but good info from Demerliac. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 20:04, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 24 July

Hi Rama, another tough one. I have just finished List of ships named Oracabessa. A French privateer, believed to be named "Vortitude", in October 1797 captured and burned the first vessel in the list. Unfortunately, this occurred off Charleston, South Carolina, so Demerliac probably has nothing, but we can always hope. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:36, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

The name is certainly Fortitude, though Vortitude sounds like a hommage to McMaster Bujold's opus. I'll check as soon as I have the books handy, cheers! Rama (talk) 08:10, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the intro to Bujold. I haven't read SciFi for 40 years and so had never heard of her. I looked her up (on WP), and will try one of her books. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:30, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

The only Fortitude in Demerliac for this period is a naval brig, formerly the British merchantman Fortitude captured in 1794, recommissioned as an aviso in La Rochelle in August 1795. She has 8 2-pounder guns. (n°610, p.99). Cheers! Rama (talk) 22:25, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Interesting. I will look in Winfield and Roberts to see what they have. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:58, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

American sources also refer to the privateer as Veritude (which according to Google happens to be the name of a Los Angeles strip club), and Fortitude. Looks like a dead end for now. Thanks for the help. 11:46, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 28 July

Hi Rama, I was just adding info to Admiral Kingsmill (1796 ship). Apparently the french privateer Courageaux, 18 guns and 214 men, captured her in 1799. Does Demerliac have anything on Courageaux? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:12, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Turns out Courageaux captured a different Admiral Kingsmill. Would still like to know if Demerliac has anything. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:17, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Courageux, 420-ton privateer commissioned in Bordeaux in 1798. First cruise under Captain Beck with 29 officers, 179 to 187 men and 26 guns, until April 1799. Second cruise under Jean Barnard with 253 men adn 28 guns (8- and 6-pounders). Captured by HMS Alcmene and recommissioned as the sloop HMS Lutine. (n°2378, p.270). Cheers! Rama (talk) 22:34, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Also interesting. Now to see what we have on Lutine. Thanks. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:59, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

This one is a mess. In 1799 the British captured the frigate Courageuse, and Courageaux. One became Lutine. The problem is the records are confusing. Some suggest that Courageaux was launched in 1779 and captured in 1798. It is going to be hard to sort this all out. Acad Ronin (talk) 01:50, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Could very well be that a ship be built in 1779, serve as a merchantman, and be recommissioned as a privateer in 1798. Are you thinking of French frigate Courageuse (1778)? Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:11, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

I believe that one is the frigate. The Brits may have have renamed her Courageaux and then Lutine after the frigate Lutine sank. Then there is the issue of prison hulk in the Med. Is the one at Minorca the same one a year or two later at Malta? IF all that is so, what happened to the privateer Courageaux? She was captured in the Atlantic and could have been brought into the Med as a prize, but going back to England is more likely. I am going to have to sit down with paper lined in columns and map out timelines by vessel in parallel. :-) Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:34, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 24 August

Hi Rama, two requests, please. 1) Adventure (1804 ship) appears to have been the French privateer Aventure, or Venture. HMS Acasta captured her in the Channel so Demerliac may very well have info on her. 2) Port Royal was briefly a French privateer, and she captured three privateers. Here I am hoping for the best as she operated in the WIndies. Thanks and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 13:44, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Hello, nothing on either, I am afraid. Better luck next time, hopefully! Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:42, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Oh well. Thanks for looking. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:19, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 18 September

Hi Rama, I have just finished HMS Anacreon (1813) and wondered if Demeerliac had anything on a French privateer named Lion. Regards, 03:05, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

I had a look: there are three possible candidates, but I see no way to chose one from these, and all were very minor units anyway (5 guns at most). Cheers! Rama (talk) 12:13, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Too bad. Thanks for looking. We will keep trying. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:48, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

If you had a clue as to her home port, that would narrow it down, but I don't suppose such information will be forthcoming easily. Rama (talk) 18:28, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 3 October

Hi rama, I have just completed Robust (1782 ship). Could you please check if Demerliac has anything on a French privateer Liberty (or Liberte), of Bordeaux, or a slaver and possible letter of marque Patriote Soldat. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 02:19, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Hello! Ghastly ship we have there...

• Liberty: I have a Liberté, privateer from Bordeau, that could match the epoch, but I cannot guarantee that she in the one. Commissioned in February 1793 under Jacques Laventy with 16 to 20 guns. She was sold in La Guadeloupe in June 1793 by a Mister Mehy, and operated uner a Captain Le Bas until 1794, with 16 guns. (n°2341, p. 266)
• Patriote Soldat: I have a number of Patriote, one Soldat, but none seem to match the time of the encounter. Patriote Soldat is not listed either.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:28, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi Rama, Patriot Soldat was a slaver so no surprise that she is not listed. I will look more carefully at Liberte. Thanks for the help. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:37, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 7 October

Hi Rama, I have just completed Norfolk (1800 ship). She captured a privateer named Adolphe. Could you please check to see if Demerliac has anything? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:15, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

An interesting one that would warrant an article of its own right.

Adolphe, three-masted lugger built in Dieppe in 1803, 43 tons of load, displacement circa 70 tons fully loaded, 17.86m long (16.24 at the keel), 4.38m beam and 1.95 draft, pierced for 6 guns.

From November 1803 to some time in 1804, her master was Philippe-Antoine Nicolaï, with 40 men and 16 guns (14 3-pounders and 2 1-pounders). She did another cruise in 1804 under an unspecified captain. In February 1805, she cruised from Boulogne under Nicolas Fourmentin, and from February 1805 to February 1806, she did three cruises under Jacques-Oudard "Bucaille" Fourmentin, with 50 to 55 men and 14 guns. From February 1806 to some time in 1806, she cruised from Boulogne under Jean "Dejean" Fourmentin. In 1807 she was again under command from "Bucaille", and then cruised from Dunkirk under Jacques-François Leclerc, with 47 men and 14 guns. On 4 December 1807 she was captured by HMS Leda. (n°1836 and 1837, p.250 of 1800-1815).

I would be quite keen to seeing what happened to her in 1807. Apparently there is a model of Adolphe at Dieppe castel inventory number 967.17.1 ; 4141 (MD), Joconde ID 07120003021 (I checked but we do not seem to have a photograph; on the other hand we do have quite an elite team of Wikipedians in the region, I'll ask what they can do).

Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:43, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Great find. I couldn't find out what happened to her. She does not appear in Lloyd's Register or the Register of Shipping. My guess would be that whoever bought her changed the name. Sorting that out would require searching in British archives, and hoping for luck. I will try and work up an article though in the hope that eventually someone will discover, serendipitously or deliberately, what happened. A photo, by the way would be marvelous. It adds gravitas and colour to what would otherwise be a bit stubby an article. I am going to have to sort out the discrepancy between the two captors, Norfolk and Leda, and the two capture dates, Jan 1807 and Dec 1807. It is possible that there were two Adolphes, perhaps because someone reused the name. Acad Ronin (talk) 23:54, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Looks like two different Adolphes. See: French privateer Adolphe. The photo at Dieppe looks good, but I wonder which vessel it is a model of. She seems to be pierced for only six guns. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:34, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

See: Adolphe (1807 privateer lugger). As soon as I can get to it I will work on the 1804 privateer lugger. Acad Ronin (talk) 01:51, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Splendid!

I'll send a mail to Dieppe to ask whether they know the exact date when the model was made (it is apparently a builder's model), and whether they are in position to provide a photograph under a Free licence. I have also asked the group of Wikipedians in Western France whether they can spare a bit of time, but Dieppe is a the limit of their range of action and there is always the risk that the model be in the reserves of the museum.

In the meantime, do you think that a line drawing of the elevation could be helpful?

I find this model very useful and even quite touching, in showing what tiny vessels were involved. She is not much larger than the biggest boats that a ship of the line would carry.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:25, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

A line drawing is welcome. It doesn't have the visual impact of the model, but it helps. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:24, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 13 October

Hi Rama, I have just completed HMS Morne Fortunee (1806). She was reportedly the French privateer Regulus, and during her service she also captured a French privateer named Luni. I have also completed HMS Morne Fortunee (1803) and HMS Morne Fortunee (1808), both of which were also ex-French privateers. This all took place in the Caribbean so Demerliac probably doesn't have anything, but if you could please check. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:04, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Hello, I will do so at the earliest convenience, probably tomorrow. Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:57, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

• Régulus: the only ship by that name in Dermliac is the 74-gun
• Luni: mentionned at page 337 as "a privateer vessel captured in May 1806 by the 12-gun HMS Morne Fortunée"
• Morne Fortunée / Joséphine (1803): I do not have any ship in the theatre that match the name Joséphine and epoch — two could have had but were based in Spain. Demerliac mentions a Morne Fortunée, a 6-gun 106-ton schooner built in Bermudes (19.96m x 6.41m), captured by the Royal Navy and brought into British service, wrecked on 6 December 1804 in the Carribean (p. 338)
• Morne Fortunée (1808)/ Joséphine: I do not have any ship in the theatre that match the name Joséphine and epoch — two could have had but were based in Spain. privateer 184-ton brig pierced for 14 but carrying only 5 guns, with 60 men. Captured by the 18-gun HMS Belette, brought in Royal Navy service and scrapped in 1813 at Antigoa (p. 338)

Cheers! Rama (talk) 21:13, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Looks like Demerliac was using British records here. Not surprising, as we have discovered, as the vessels were in the Caribbean. However, could you check for a Josephine in 1808 as that was the name of the vessel Belette captured, not the 1803 vessel. Acad Ronin (talk) 00:15, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I made a mistake while writing my report above, I did check for 1808 and not 1803 (re-checked this morning). About Demerliac using British records: my thoughts exactly! I would find is likely that the actual name of the privateer was indeed Joséphine and that she was renamed after her capture. Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:20, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 16 October

Hi Rama, I have finished Adolphe (1803 privateer lugger). I am pleased that I was able to add info beyond what we got from Demerliac and that we have a respectable article. It is too bad that I couldn't find any subsequent history. I still have three questions though: 1) Demerliac says she was pierced for 6 guns (and the model shows 6 guns), but all reports say 14 guns. 2) You give two numbers for Demerliac, №1836 and №1837. I have assumed that №1836 refers to this Adolpe and that №1837 applies to the 1807 Adolphe, but is that correct or is Demerliac confusing the two vessels? 3) Does he have anything on Racrocheuse? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:42, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

1) Demerliac speaks of three- and one-pounder guns, maybe most of them were swivel guns?

2) Yes exactly. Demerliac starts №1837 with "continuation of №1836".

3) Indeed he has! Raccrocheuse №2 or Grande Raccrocheuse: privateer built in Boulogne in 1804 and commissioned in Calais in October 1804. Cruised under Jacques Broquant with 56 men and 14 guns until captured off Dieppe on 10 December 1804 by HMS Favorite (p. 237, №1663)

Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:09, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi Rama, Well, well, well. We seem to be on a lucky streak. No mention of swivels, but certainly possible, at least for the 1-pounder. However, the pounds were probably French, so a French 3-pounder would be close to an English 4-pounder. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:23, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Done. Acad Ronin (talk) 20:35, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 19 October

Hi Rama, I have just finished Royal George (1803 ship). As HMS Bustard, in 1810 she captured a French privateer corvette named Minerve. Does Demerliac have anything on Minerve? Fingers crossed that our luck holds. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:46, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Hello, and my apologies for the belated reply. She is mentioned as a "2-gun, 60-man privateer captured circa August 1810 by HMS Bustard", so I think Demerliac was relying on British sources that you already have. (p.338 of 1800-1815) Rama (talk) 18:54, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Too bad, but not unusual. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:48, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Babiole

Hi Rama, Great stuff. I particularly like the info on the cargoes of the vessels she captured. One of my more official interests is international trade, and seeing what commodities traded is illuminating. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 13:23, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Exactly what I was thinking! Especially since trading gun shots to capture a few tons of dried fruits strikes me as a very harsh existence. Rama (talk) 14:03, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the info re Demerliac. As for captured cargoes, I wish I knew what "Macaron" were. I could figure the other cargoes out, but the obvious answer for macaron is improbable. I wonder if earlier macaron was a generic term for round biscuits, rather than the modern patisserie.Acad Ronin (talk) 16:51, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Oh yes, it would be this sort File:Macaron.jpg, not the modern thing. Rama (talk) 17:03, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

I have made the link to the WP article, but am still a little unsure. Would something even like the early macron have survived a sea voyage from the Med to London while packed in barrels? Acad Ronin (talk) 17:18, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

some variants are rather on the hard side for biscuit, but in many cases the terms used to describe the cargo at quite technical and specific, and sometimes also a bit old usage. I hope I am not making a gross misinterpretation. Rama (talk) 17:28, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

As an eventualist, I figure that if we are wrong, at some point in the future someone will correct us. In the meantime, as macaron apparently were invented only in 1792, I suspect there was quite a bit of experimentation and variation.Acad Ronin (talk) 18:38, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

On a slightly different topic, is there any French equivalent of Lloyd's Register for our period? I would like to be able to figure out what happened to some of the captured British vessels, and the origins of some of the French vessels that were captured. I haven't found anything, unfortunately. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:38, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

From what I have found from a causal research, I am afraid that nothing of the sort existed at the time, and that the very Lloyd's Register was later hired to extend its services to France. If that is indeed the case, the only resources at hand would be archives of the various ports and companies, later compiled in books of which the Demerliac at the latest installment. But I will keep the question in mind and be on the lookout for any better clue. Cheers! Rama (talk) 11:54, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Congratulations from the Military History Project

		Military history reviewers' award
		On behalf of the Military History Project, I am proud to present the The Milhist reviewing award (1 stripe) for October to December 2018 reviews. MilHistBot (talk) 01:06, 8 January 2019 (UTC) Keep track of upcoming reviews. Just copy and paste {{WPMILHIST Review alerts}} to your user space

Nomination of Cocco for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Cocco is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cocco until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. -- NoCOBOL (talk) 13:21, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:BlueHelmet

Template:BlueHelmet has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. ^{[Username Needed]} 11:54, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 9 Feb 2019

Hi Rama, I have just finished HMS Starling. Does Demerliac have anything on the French privateer Phoebe, of four guns? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:49, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

Yes, Phoebé, a privateer cutter commissioned in Cherbourg in 1800, Guillaume Mosquerer, master. Another cruise under François Folliot in 1800. Departed in May or June 1803 with 28 men and 4 guns, captured by Hydra on 25 June. (n°1930, p. 257)

Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:45, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. I have implemented the info on the Starling article and will add it to the Hydra article too. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:14, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:BlueHelmet

Template:BlueHelmet has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. ^{[Username Needed]} 14:49, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 14 February 2019

Hi Rama, an older article, but does Demerliac have anything about a French privateer named Vengeance that captured Zephyr (1790 ship)? Thanks and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:08, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

seeing the description of the ship, this is in all likelihood one of the privateers corvettes that Bordeaux was mass-producing at the time. I have one ship of the sort active in the years that interest us:

Vengeance, 300-ton, 20-gun privateer corvette commissioned in Bordeaux in October 1797. First cruise from October 1797. Second cruise from circa August 1798 to circa February 1799 under a Captain Limousin, with 5 officers and 74 men. Second cruise in 1800 under a Captain Grandier. She might have been renamed to Vénus in 1800. Captured by HMS Fishgard and taken into British service as HMS Scout. N°2373, p.270.

I am not sure this is our ship, but the others of that name (or Vengeur) that were active at the time square even less than this one, so this is the less unlikely, even though the description of the end of her career makes me suspect confusion with other ships. Cheers! Rama (talk) 16:23, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I have implemented the first part. The Vengeance, which became Venus, was launched in 1794 and renamed Venus in 1795. (see: French corvette Vénus (1794)). It is certain that Demerliac's Vengeance is not the Venus that became Scout. Does the 1800-1815 Demerliac book have anything on our Vengeance? I wonder what became of her. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:29, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

No, I have the impression that Demerliac mixes the two Vengeance; he attributes the late career of Vengeance (1794) to that of Vengeance (1799). Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:16, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

I thought that that might be the case. Too bad. Thanks for looking. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:18, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 4 March 2019

Hi Rama, I have just finished HMS Vulture (1803). On 11 November 1807 Vulture was in company or in sight when HMS Aimable captured the French 16-privateer Décidée. Any info? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:07, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

No, sorry: there are a few Décidée and Décidé, but none that match this date. Better luck next time hopefully! Rama (talk) 06:02, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for looking. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:22, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Question

Hello Rama, I was wondering if you had any information regarding the court martial of General Louis-François Jeannet and Maurice-Henri Bresseau following their failed invasion of Curacao in 1800. A long time ago i had stumbled across an index entry for the court martial records and was wondering if you knew anything about it or how to access such records. Regards, XavierGreen (talk) 16:04, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

There are allusions to it at these locations: [1] [2]. CAOM stands for "Centre des Archives d'Outre-Mer", the forerunner of the Archives Nationales d'Outre-mer. We can find these documents from the online index [3]. The ones you are looking for seem not to be available online, but it is possible to request photographs to be made, for a small fee [4]. Do let me know if you need help with French terminology.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 16:29, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you very much!XavierGreen (talk) 17:27, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 10 March 2019

Hi Rama, I have just posted the article Windsor Castle (1804 packet ship). She captured the French privateer Jeune Richard in a notable singe-ship action. I was hoping that Demerliac might have something about Jeune Richard. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:53, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello, nothing on this one, quite surprisingly. Sorry! Rama (talk) 17:22, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 14 March 2019

Hi Rama, I have just finished HMS Phosphorus (1804). In 1806 she repelled an attack in the Channel by the privateer lugger Elize. Does Demerliac have anything? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 02:09, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

It would probably be spelled Élise, but I have nothing matching the date, sorry. Rama (talk) 17:24, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 17 March 2019

Hi Rama, I have just finished HMS Dove (1805). On 5 August 1805 a 22-gun French sloop named Gloire captured her. There was a 44-gun frigate named Gloire, but the reports of the capture are not consistent with the captor being the frigate, and there does not seem to have been any French Navy sloop but that name. That suggests that Gloire was a privateer. I hope that Demerliac can shed some light on this. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:21, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Nothing there either. Darn, we were not in luck today. I hope that fortune will compensate with an interesting unit that would warrant her own article, next time! I hope that this does not affect your spirits and that you keep up your excellent work! Rama (talk) 17:26, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for trying. Jeune Richard would have been good because she had some success as a privateer, and Gloire would have been good because all the books assume she was French Navy. All we can hope is for better luck next time, plus perhaps the occasional serendipitous discovery. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:16, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

I checked that too, there were a small number of ships named Gloire that were corvettes or galleys, but none matches the dates. It is a bit weird since she seems to have been a rather large unit. Better chance next time hopefully! Rama (talk) 18:22, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 4 April 2019

Hi Rama, I have just finished Minerva (1805 whaler), which is the former letter-of-marque Minerve. Does Demerliac have anything on Minerve? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:02, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

Yes, I think this is the n°2262, p. 284: a corvette-sized 322-ton privateer from Bordeaux, armed with 18 8-pounders. First cruise in 1800 under Eugène Langlois, then another cruise in August 1804 as she was serving as an armed merchantman, with a 85-man crew. She is probably the ship captured in the Channel in February 1805.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:11, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. I have inserted the info. This will justify my looking for traces of her between 1800 and 1804. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:41, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Heavy.com

Appreciate you trying to source facts for the Katie Bouman bio, but heavy.com is a garbage clickbait site. I've posted on the reliable sources noticeboard to confirm that I'm not the only one who feels that way. [5]. Cheers, OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 19:28, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it was sourcing the Wikidata property but it contradicted the date given by this other source [6] (I am not quite sure what to make out of this one either (they got her PhD advisor wrong))

By the way, we might consider feeding the infobox from Wikidata, there is much duplicated information as it is now. Rama (talk) 19:31, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Yeesh, that source looks a bit dicey too. (How did they get her weight? A carnival consultant?) I'm ashamed to admit that I'm not familiar with the process of connecting the wikidata directly to the infobox (or did you just mean manually transcribing it?) OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 19:34, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Oh no, I mean using a template {{Infobox person/Wikidata}}. What we might want to add or override we can specify here, bust what Wikidata has will be put here by default. Rama (talk) 19:41, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 11 April 2019

Hi Rama, I have just completed Ariadne (1795 ship). The French privateer Guadeloupienne captured her in 1806. This occurred in the WIndies, so Demerliac probably has little or nothing on the privateer, but if you could check that would be helpful. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:51, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

No Guadeloupéenne matching these dates, sorry. Rama (talk) 18:51, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for looking. It was a long shot. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:39, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 17 April 2019

Hi Rama, here's another one. I have just finished Horatio (1800 ship). On 30 December 1805 HMS Narcissus recaptured Horatio, and captured the French privateer brig Prudent, of 12 guns and 70 men. The action took place off the Liberian coast. Does Demerliac have anything on Prudent? Thanks for the help, regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:39, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello, and my apologies for the late answer. She is mentionned as Prudente (feminine form) in Demerliac, p.339. This is the section for unnumbered ships on which little is known, and Demerliac merely repeats what you have written above. He probably used the same sources as you. Rama (talk) 18:18, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

No surprise. At least I can cite Demerliac for the French spelling.

Demerliac request 21 April 2019

Hi Rama, on 3 March 1796 HMS Cleopatra (1779) captured a French privateer named Aurore or Aurora. On 22 April she captured another Aurore. The London Gazette describes the first as a privateer. I am trying to write up an Aurora that disappears from Lloyd's Register between 1795 and 1797, and wonder if one of the French vessels was her. (There was a West Indiaman named Aurora that was captured in 1795.)

* Aurore (n°1448, p.193): ship of unspecified type with 10 guns, under a Captain Beaut. Commissioned in early 1796, captured by HMS Cleopatra in March 1796.

Sadly, the other Aurore are not a match. Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:23, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

I can add the commissioning info to the Cleopatra article at least.

Demerliac request 24 April 2019

Hi Rama, I have just put up Harpooner (1771 ship). In 1780 two French privateers captured her, I think in the Channel or nearby, and I wonder if Demerliac has anything. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 14:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, nothing close. Demerliac is unfortunately often quiet on prizes, it would be useful to see ships in their various careers, but it does not occur often. Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:26, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

That was a particularly long shot, so no surprise.

Thanks for looking all this up. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:43, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Always a pleasure, looking forwards to our next adventure in naval sleuthing! Rama (talk) 20:44, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Just to confirm, when you looked up Harpooner you did check to see if Demerliac had anything about any privateers named Marquis of Seignety, of Dunkirk, Comptesse of Buzanisis, Lux, master, and Marques de Seiguley? The first and third may have been the same vessel. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:52, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

sorry, I have overlooked them.

• I have a Marquis de Seignelay, form Le Havre (n°1770, p. 181), a 280-ton privateer under François Cottin, with 160 men, 20 8-pounder guns and 8 swivel guns. Between 1779 and December 1790, she captured 40 ships totaling 117 guns and 418 prisoners. She was then captured by a ship of the line and a frigate of the Royal Navy, and recommissioned as a naval sloop. She was eventually sold in March 1786.
• I think you want the Comtesse de Buzençois, a privateer active in November and December 1790 under André Lux (n°1775, p.182). She was captured by the British in December 1790 and taken to Southampton. No mention is made of her being the former Harpooner, but this is not at all unlikely.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:08, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Excellent. I have implemented the data. Marquis de Seignelay became HMS Marquis de Seignelay, but although she appears in the National Maritime Museum's database she does not appear in Winfield. I will have to track down some other sources, but for now I am delighted that we have at least this much. Many thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:11, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Phelps

Hi, what on earth are you doing in restoring the three-times deleted Clarice Phelps article? We have processes for this, as you should know. - Sitush (talk) 08:13, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Indeed, Rama. The community has decided—in at least three discussions—that this is not the time for an article. Short of you reversing your undeletion, you will be welcome, I suspect, at Arbcom. Cheers, ——SerialNumber54129 08:19, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Sitush (talk) 08:24, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

We have processes, and we also have things like WP:BOLD etc. Processes exist to decide on a appropriate outcome, not entrench decision that are questionable in the first place and become utterly inappropriate later on.

In this instance:

• there are a great many sources for the article, indicating that the subject was likely to be notable in the first place. It would be interesting to compare the threshold for male and white third-rated sportsmen.
• there are now almost enough source on the deletion of the article to make that a notable subject in itself
• the deletion of the article is a source of embarasment for Wikipedia, and an emergency restoration of the article seems quite appropriate to me to avoid making Wikipedia look indifferent, incapable of correcting its mistakes, or even militant in its invisibilisation of women and minorities. Being an administrator is not merely blindly following protocol, but also taking appropriate action when needed.

"Short of you reversing your undeletion" sounds suspiciously like a threat, and I do not respond well to this.

Rama (talk) 08:51, 29 April 2019 (UTC)