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→‎Comma usage dispute: Rmv request; declined by the committee
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== Comma usage dispute ==
'''Initiated by ''' [[User:Soundofmusicals|Soundofmusicals]] ([[User talk:Soundofmusicals|talk]]) '''at''' 15:18, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

=== Involved parties ===
<!-- Please change "userlinks" to "admin" if the party is an administrator -->
*{{userlinks|Soundofmusicals}}, ''filing party''
*{{userlinks|Keith-264}}

;Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
<!-- All parties must be notified that the request has been filed, immediately after it is posted, and confirmation posted here. -->
*[diff of notification Keith-264]

;Confirmation that other steps in [[Wikipedia:dispute resolution|dispute resolution]] have been tried
This has been running for a while - I have indicated my point of view on several occasions with no response from the other party - finally I added a succinct statement to his talk page, which he has replied with a simple "you're wrong" response and a repeated revert. We are in a potential "edit war" situation. The other party and myself are both opinionated and stubborn, but we have worked together well in the past, and I want this settled as quickly as possible to salvage our good working relationship if it is at all possible.

* [[Fokker scourge]]
* [[User talk:Keith-264]]

=== Statement by Soundofmusicals ===
It is true that in the case of a standard "list", as in "A wombat eats roots, shoots and leaves", or "I bought butter, eggs and a pound of cheese", it is usual to have no comma before the "and" that precedes the last item in the list; but many publishing houses and journalistic organisations do in fact insist on the comma here (the so-called "Oxford comma"). Let's go with the flow and accept that the Oxford comma is an affectation. We also don't need a comma between two "alternative" or "conjoined" items - such as "tea or coffee are available" or "Bows and arrows are the essential tools of the archer: traditionally the trades of the bowyer and the fletcher made and maintained these tools".

On the other hand, a comma is actually required, in fact a sentence can be rendered ambiguous or meaningless without it, when a pair of commas fulfills a parenthetical function: replacing a pair of brackets (...). Thus this sentence (with parentheses) might be rendered as "This sentence, without parentheses, might be etc.." No "and" here, of course, but what about - "When she says (and I fear she DOES say) that men are the bane of womankind"? Take away either "bracket replacement comma" and at best this would read very strangely: sensible punctuation of the clause without the brackets requires "When she says, and I fear she DOES say, that men etc.".

There are so many exceptions to any simplistic "rule" saying: "no comma before a conjunction" that this is really not the sort of thing a BOT should be asked to decide on, it requires a fluent and literate writer of English. A misplaced comma "feels" wrong - a missing comma at best "feels" even worse than wrong, and can, as I have pointed out elsewhere, actually distort, obscure or change the meaning of a sentence.

=== Statement by Keith-264 ===
Soundofmusicals struggles with some of the basics of prose writing and he/she resents edits which make his writing succinct and easier to read. We've been debating punctuation and syntax on the [[Fokker scourge]] page for ages but my laconic prose and Sounds's flowery circumlocutions don't mix. [[User:Keith-264|Keith-264]] ([[User talk:Keith-264|talk]]) 16:31, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

=== Statement by {Non-party} ===
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information.
<!-- * Please copy this section for the next person. * -->

=== Clerk notes ===
:''This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).''
*

=== Comma usage dispute: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <0/8/0> ===
{{anchor|1=While conjuctions frequently don't need s comma before them - this is very simply NOT an invariable rule.
: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter}}<small>Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse)</small>
*'''Decline''' - this issue is not yet ripe for arbitration, as other avenues of [[WP:Dispute resolution|dispute resolution]] have yet to be exhausted. [[User:Ks0stm|<span style='color:green;'>'''Ks0stm'''</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contribs/Ks0stm|C]]•[[:en:User:Ks0stm/G|G]]•[[:en:User:Ks0stm/E|E]])</sup> 16:36, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
*'''Decline''' per Ks0stm. [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] ([[User talk:Kirill Lokshin|talk]]) 17:07, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
*'''Decline''' it doesn't appear the varying steps outlined at [[WP:DISPUTE]] including [[WP:CONTENTDISPUTE]] have been attempted. ArbCom is a last resort as described in [[WP:ARBGUIDE]]. '''[[User:Mkdw|<span style="color:black;text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px white, -4px -4px 15px white">Mkdw</span>]]''' [[User talk:Mkdw|<sup>''<span style="color: #0B0080;text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px white, -4px -4px 15px white">talk</span>''</sup>]] 17:48, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
*'''Decline''' as premature. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 18:21, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
*'''Decline''' as premature. [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 18:27, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
*Using commas correctly is very important and especially in long sentences they can really be necessary to help the reader but it should be possible to discuss and agree on their usage amicably or if necessary with the help of earlier dispute resolution steps before this reaches the level of an arbitration case and therefore I vote to decline at this time. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] ([[User talk:Newyorkbrad|talk]]) 22:42, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
*'''Decline,''' though, I, prefer, the, [http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2011/06/goodbye-oxford-comma-hello-shatner-comma.html Shatner, comma]. [[User:Opabinia regalis|Opabinia regalis]] ([[User talk:Opabinia regalis|talk]]) 06:24, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
*'''Decline''' per above including, and especially, NYB's comment. <b>[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]</b> ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 07:53, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:06, 12 July 2017


Requests for arbitration