Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Sportspeople: Difference between revisions

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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Sportspeople. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Sportspeople

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 06:05, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Naygel Coffie

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Created in a different time when national team play was within the guidelines; it is not anymore and I was not able to find a single article to contribute to passing WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Geschichte (talk) 09:34, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:18, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Previous WP:PROD candidate, ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 11:31, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 05:12, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. czar 02:52, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Elias Hovdahl Sandrød

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I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV for this footballer using both "Elias Hovdahl Sandrød" and "Elias Sandrød" as a search term. JTtheOG (talk) 02:41, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, WP:TOOSOON. Subbed in the 86th minute and nothing of note has been disseminated about the player. Geschichte (talk) 08:46, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:21, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. ✗plicit 13:11, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ingemar Burgström

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Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT and WP:NOLY. Only sources I could find were 2 directory listings in Google books. LibStar (talk) 02:25, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, there's 146 mentions in Swedish newspaper archives, of which a lot seem like they might contain sigcov. We need someone with access to verify their content though. AlexandraAVX (talk) 19:33, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The article doesn't show significant independent coverage that meets WP:GNG. Losing in the first round of the Olympics and compiling an 8-7 record as a pro boxer means he also fails WP:NOLY and WP:NBOX. I can't comment on what coverage might exist in Swedish, so I am not voting as this time. Papaursa (talk) 00:59, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 03:45, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, appears very likely notable per AlexandraAVX. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:08, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which sources in Alexandra's search meet significant coverage for WP:BIO? LibStar (talk) 04:25, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They are paywalled – however, given that we know that over 140 pieces of coverage do exist, someone would need to look at them to determine otherwise that he's not notable. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:39, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:59, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist to assess the Swedish sources.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 09:02, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. There was a suggestion in the last AFD that this article be Redirected to North Korea national football team#Top goalscorers so that is an option that might be considered. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:07, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An Chol-hyok

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Article fails WP:GNG. The one source provided is not nearly enough. Redirect to 2010 North Korean World Cup squad. Simione001 (talk) 00:08, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy Keep. Article was already nominated for deletion by the same user less than three months ago, which resulted in a clear consensus to keep. Nothing has changed since then. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:22, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm suggesting that the previous result was incorrect as the article still fails WP:GNG. Was far from clear. Article should not be kept due to ideological reasons. Simione001 (talk) 01:10, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You personally may disagree with that consensus, but that does not mean that you are correct. Re-nominating it so soon when there's been zero change in anything – just because you don't like the original outcome – is borderline disruptive. BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:18, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I didnt say i didnt like it, I'm saying that it was incorrect based on the sourcing. Are you saying that the one source is the article is sufficient to pass WP:GNG? If so I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion based on the guidelines if you are assessing the article objectively. Simione001 (talk) 01:48, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural keep – Per BeanieFan11. Little time has passed since the last AfD, nothing that justifies a change in consensus. Svartner (talk) 01:47, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the first AFD nomination votes/comments. This article was here in the AFD just about three months ago with huge support to keep and should not have been returned within this short period especially by the same user who nominated it then. Piscili (talk) 01:55, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep - nothing has changed since last AFD. Really bad faith nomination. GiantSnowman 18:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Where does it say that renominating an article after 3 months is not alloyed? especially when the article continues to fail WP:GNG. That is ample time to improve the article. The guidelines are quite clear. Nobody has made a argument about how the article passes WP:GNG either here or in the previous discussion. Simione001 (talk) 22:00, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to 1966 FIFA World Cup squads#North Korea. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Seung-il (footballer)

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Article fails WP:GNG. Redirect to 1966 World Cup squad. Simione001 (talk) 00:01, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 01:47, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per nomination. There are corresponding articles in 13 languages, but none of them provide any significant coverage of him, especially the Korean Wikipedia which would help otherwise. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 12:37, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 18:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Simione001: You've nominated well over 150 historic North Korean footballers for deletion and seem to near-exclusively target them – where do you do your WP:BEFORE searches for them? BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:47, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They've obviously been going to North Korea and searching through newspaper archives. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:20, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BeanieFan11 and @WikiOriginal-9: Simone not only nominated sportspeople articles from North Korea, but I saw they've recently nominated those from other Asian countries such as Middle East (e.g. Husam Hourani). If both of you want to know what happened some time ago, read Jogourney and Spiderone's replies to Simone's talk page titled "AfDs".

My WP:BEFORE mostly revolves around news media on the article's language as well as Google search. If the source is not in English or my native language (Indonesian), I use Google Translate to see whether or not it contains significant coverage... or the fact that the person participates in event (e.g. Club debut). I can assume Simone just look that such articles fail WP:GNG in their own appearances without searching on Google or news media.

For countries that don't use Latin alphabet, finding significant information about something to add on Wikipedia might be certainly difficult. This is a problem for North Korea-related sportspeople articles since it doesn't have any trusted news media. From my editing experience, I see the exact same calibre format/reference as North Korea with, say, Slovakia-related articles, since most news coverage are paywalled. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:46, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can assume Simone just look that such articles fail WP:GNG in their own appearances without searching on Google or news media. – so, basically, there's no BEFORE at all for these nominations... (and I get that it's absurdly difficult to find North Korean newspaper sources, but I'd think that something should be done before trying to delete well over half of the footballers in a nation's history...) BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:10, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid just Googling isn't good enough sometimes, especially for a pre-internet topic like this. Even for a topic from 2010 or so, Googling may not be good enough. It doesn't take too long for some links to go dead on the internet. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:11, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Can an editor provide a link to the proposed Redirect target article? Thanks.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here you are - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_FIFA_World_Cup_squads#North_Korea Simione001 (talk) 04:16, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Simione001: You can answer that, but not what your BEFORE search encompasses? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:06, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 23:29, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Pung-il

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 23:58, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 02:02, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete can’t find any sources showing notability.

Absurdum4242 (talk) 15:27, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to 2010 FIFA World Cup squads#North Korea. asilvering (talk) 02:40, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Myong-gil

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 23:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to 2010 FIFA World Cup squads#North_Korea

Lâm (talk) 09:26, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 18:19, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 14:41, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shunya Suzuki

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This footballer does not meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT yet, having only played 108 minutes of league football. Sources provided in Ja:wiki are either WP:PRIMARY or WP:PASSING. Geschichte (talk) 14:38, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 10:56, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I accidentally read his minutes per season as his games and thought there was potential to expand if one can read Japanese, but 108 minutes in four years is not WP:GNG...and a waste of a Designated Player slot. Unknown Temptation (talk) 13:46, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 14:41, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Huang Pu

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. References are not significant and he has played only 9 games in China's third league as well as some in Portuguese amateur leagues. Geschichte (talk) 14:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. Has not played in top professional level in China or Portugal. LibStar (talk) 11:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 14:42, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Manabu Kubota

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Played 16 games in Japan's second league twenty years ago, no sign of WP:GNG/WP:SIGCOV. Geschichte (talk) 14:42, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 19:36, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Disregarding the socks, this is a clear Delete. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:45, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hadiseh Jamal

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Fails notability, her achievements (even if they are correct) are in youth level. she never won anything in a major event. the article tries to sell her as a world and Asian senior medalist. Sports2021 (talk) 03:23, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Only success has come in junior events. According to the WKF records, she has competed in 9 events as an adult and never medaled. As an adult she has never qualified for a continental or world championship and is currently ranked #90. I found no significant independent coverage, mainly reports of Iranian youth team results. Doesn't meet any WP notability criteria. Papaursa (talk) 14:52, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep In karate, unlike many other sports, there is no significant difference between the youth (under-21) and adult competitions in terms of credibility and status. In fact, both the youth and adult categories are evaluated at the same level, and there is no distinction in the value and importance of their achievements. This is often misunderstood by those who lack sufficient expertise in this sport. Many uninformed individuals, including some media outlets, may assume that youth competitions are less important than adult competitions. However, the reality is that youth competitions in karate are held with the same level of difficulty and seriousness, and the medals earned in both categories hold equal credibility and value.Particularly in prestigious continental events like the Asian Championships, which are overseen by the World Karate Federation (WKF), the medals are recognized as global successes. The quality of these competitions does not differ from that of adult competitions, and in many cases, athletes who achieve medals in the youth category quickly find remarkable success at the international adult level as well.This misunderstanding regarding the differences between age categories leads some individuals to fail to recognize the valuable achievements of athletes. However, from the perspective of experts and those who are deeply familiar with the structure of karate, such successes, even in the youth category, are by no means less significant than those in the adult category.Please advise users who lack sufficient knowledge about this sport not to remove templates or edit the article, as doing so only harms the integrity of information, such as that found on Wikipedia in English, and spreads misinformation about karate. Maintaining accuracy and reliability in the discourse surrounding this sport is essential.InfoExplorer2023 (talk) 20:50, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Completely fails sports notability. Lekkha Moun (talk) 16:22, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The issue of deleting certain sports articles, particularly regarding karate, requires careful and in-depth consideration. In this discipline, competitions and medals directly reflect the high level of skill and experience of the athletes. Karate, as a martial art, demands advanced techniques and high concentration, which can only be achieved through continuous practice and competition at the adult level.In karate, there is no separation between age categories, and all competitions are held in a professional and competitive manner. Winning a medal in Asian competitions, regardless of age, demonstrates the high abilities and skills of this athlete at an international level.Deleting these articles is not only incorrect but also unjustifiable from the perspective of the documentation and credibility of Wikipedia's sources. These articles can remain as reliable references in the field of karate and contribute to documenting the history and achievements of athletes.Therefore, based on my expertise in Wikipedia and the sport of karate, I firmly state that this article should be preserved to enhance the recognition of karate athletes' achievements and to document the history of this sport within Wikipedia.BookLover070 (talk) 19:19, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:22, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Parsa Mohammadi

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Fails notability, never even participated in a major event let alone winning something. he never won that medal mentioned in the article. Sports2021 (talk) 03:17, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Still another junior karateka with no success as an adult. The silver medal it shows for him at the Asian championships was in a cadet division (clear because the weight division given isn't used for adults and because he was only 15). The WKF database shows he won two fights to win the silver. He has never competed in a European or world championship as an adult. In fact, the WKF doesn't show him competing in any event as an adult yet. The sources are all from state media reporting on team results. No WP notability criteria are met. Papaursa (talk) 16:29, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I would like to provide some explanations regarding the proposal to delete this article, which may offer a different perspective on the issue. In karate, competitions and medals are directly related to the high level of skill and experience of the athletes. In this sport, there is no separation between age categories, and all competitions are highly competitive and professional.As a martial art, karate requires a high level of technique and focus, which can only be achieved through continuous training and competition at the adult level. In fact, karate practitioners compete with adults from the very beginning, and competitions are held in a professional and rigorous manner. The fact that the silver medal won at the Asian Championships for this athlete, regardless of age, reflects their high skill level and abilities on an international scale.Furthermore, deleting this article is not only incorrect but also unjustifiable according to Wikipedia's guidelines. This article should remain as a credible reference in the field of karate, as every sport requires documentation and resources that help showcase the history and achievements of its athletes.Ultimately, considering these points, deleting the article is not only a mistake but also results in the loss of an important part of the history and achievements of this athlete. The article should remain to aid in documenting and legitimizing this athlete’s contributions in the future.BookLover070 (talk) 19:06, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

— BookLover070 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

BookLover070 has been indefinitely blocked as a sockpuppet. More importantly, he fails to show the subject meets WP:GNG or any SNG. His argument boils down to WP:ILIKEIT. He even contradicts himself. First he makes the incorrect statement that karate has "no separation between age categories, and all competitions are highly competitive and professional" when the article clearly shows the subject's success was only in youth divisions. Then he says "karate requires a high level of technique and focus, which can only be achieved through continuous training and competition at the adult level." This again argues against subject's WP notability. There's a reason that WP:MANOTE says that only success in adult black belt divisions shows competitive WP notability (and then only for high level tournaments). Papaursa (talk) 01:57, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Non notable athlete. No success as an adult. Fails notability. Lekkha Moun (talk) 07:43, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 08:12, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alireza Hashemzadeh

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Fails notability, most probably everything in this article is fake. he never won a gold medal at the Asian Games or 2019 Asian Senior Championships! he never participated in any major event. Sports2021 (talk) 02:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete He did not compete at the 2018 Asian Games, so that claim is false. The WKF database shows he is a registered competitor, but they show no record of him competing at any of their events. There are over 350 ranked competitors in his division, but he is not listed. The sources don't show WP notability or, in the case of his supposed Asian Games championship, what they're claimed to show. There is a source showing he won a bronze medal at the "2nd World Goju Karate Championship" in 2013 (he'd have been 17 or 18). The host South Africans won 21 of the 55 gold medals. His age, the medal distribution, and the fact that many of the divisions didn't even have enough competitors to give out all 4 medals all seem to point to this being a relatively minor event. I don't believe the coverage meets WP:GNG as it consists of lots of congratulatory reporting on results and celebrations over success at minor events. No evidence that any WP notability criteria is met. Papaursa (talk) 16:00, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: For further evaluation of the newly added sources.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 04:34, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Looking through the added sources, and relying on Google translate, I found claims of international and world championships, but none of them specified the division or sponsoring organization. The most I found was a claim that he won a youth world championship, but there's no record of him competing at any WKF event. There were also interviews of him saying he would be training to compete at the Olympics, but again there's no record of him competing in any qualifying events. I saw no evidence of him meeting WP:GNG or WP:MANOTE. Please let me know if anyone shows WP:THREE is met. Papaursa (talk) 02:48, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails notability as per nom. Lekkha Moun (talk) 07:39, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 04:35, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Amir Arsalan Heidarzad

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Fails notability, never did anything important in his career. completely unknown. Sports2021 (talk) 02:37, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete All of his successes were as a pre-teen or teenager, which doesn't show WP notability. He never competed at any European or world championships, either in a youth or adult division. As an adult he never finished in the top 10 of any WKF sanctioned tournament and lost more fights than he won. The sources merely report results and mistakenly refer to the Karate 1 series of events as "world championships" instead of relatively minor events. Papaursa (talk) 16:11, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Draftify‎. asilvering (talk) 22:24, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Justin Janssen

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I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV for this footballer. Seems WP:TOOSOON for an article at the moment as all I found was this routine transactional announcement. JTtheOG (talk) 20:50, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Draftify – WP:TOOSOON. Svartner (talk) 21:13, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify or delete per WP:ANYBIO and BLPSOURCES. Why was this accepted at NPR? Perhaps they know of sources we don't? SerialNumber54129 13:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article was reviewed as a part of the ongoing September New Page Patrol Backlog Drive, but articles like this get reviewed pretty often regardless. JTtheOG (talk) 17:51, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Drafify - not currently notable, but might be in future. Giant Snowman 18:04, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify as an ATD. Not presently notable. Bobby Cohn (talk) 20:09, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 10:39, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Samantha Cabiles

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Fails WP:NSKATE. Bgsu98 (Talk) 16:46, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Not very much coverage about this person, this is just a quick mention [1] and that's about all I can find. Oaktree b (talk) 00:00, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Already at AFD, not eligible for Soft Deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:35, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Liz, how different was the original article which was deleted in 2017 to the one that is up for AFD now? Bgsu98 (Talk) 19:35, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:BIO per nom. Nothing found in a WP:BEFORE aside from the source presented by Oaktree. SBKSPP (talk) 08:00, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK to delete. For the record, it's all about where you search and how hard you look. "Michiganders to watch in 2013" for example, has biographical detail on Samantha Cabiles (though she was considered a Toronto ice skater at the time. There's also "Richmond Hill skaters optimistic about the upcoming season" where Cabiles is quoted in 2014. While I wouldn't call it in-depth coverage, Cabiles is in this 2014 wire story with a photo on Spin.ph, titled "Olympian Michael Martinez, 'Skating Gazelle' Cabiles vying in Triglav Trophy in Slovenia". So while it seems we haven't actually been that thorough with searching for past coverage, if there is a clear rationale for deletion, it has to be that she doesn't meet WP:NSKATE, as she failed to win a medal at an international senior- or junior-level championship (yes), but also that she "only" won a silver medal at the senior-level national championship in 2015, for example, per The Manila Times, and according to the skating-specific guidelines as they stand, winning a gold medal at the senior-level national championship wouldn't have counted anyway because the Philippines doesn't regularly send skaters to the Olympics. I have gone back and forth, but in order to make an argument for keeping the article on the basis of WP:BASIC, I would have wanted to see one more article that discussed Cabiles in some depth, and so because some additional searching didn't turn up much more (there were a lot of additional passing mentions in newspaper articles including Philstar.com for example but nothing major), I think this is ok to delete. (But please do ping me if an additional source is found.) Cielquiparle (talk) 09:26, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:46, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Max Trejo

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Played two professional games in MLS Next Pro and now plays for a university. Everything I could find from a Google search was related directly to his career at Ohio State University (almost all of it coming from OSU match reports and write ups). At this point, it looks like this fails WP:GNG. Anwegmann (talk) 02:30, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:28, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - does not meet WP:GNG. Demt1298 (talk) 17:25, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Not finding much about this subject outside of routine match reports. Fails WP:GNG. Let'srun (talk) 23:47, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Like WTF is with this article, over a hundred citations? On what exactly? Looking through the citations, it felt like WP:PRIMARY social media posting with a load of cite's pointing at stuff nothing really to do with this person. I really don't know what to make of it. I probably would delete because it feels like trash to me. Govvy (talk) 08:38, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Per WP:GNG, he is not notable. XxTechnicianxX (talk) 19:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mutwalibi Mugolofa

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Fails Wikipedia:GNG. There is no evidence of any appearance in any league match or appearance in international matches. EpicAdventurer (talk) 21:18, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:24, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:28, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or redirect to Kampala Capital City Authority FC. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 20:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:22, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ismet Osmani

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Failure of WP:SPORTCRIT and WP:GNG. Modest career with 63 minutes in Austria’s second highest league, as well as some games in Albania’s second tier, Austria’s third tier and Germany’s fourth tier. I can't find any significant coverage, only articles about an accused criminal of the same name. Geschichte (talk) 19:25, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:23, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:28, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:22, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jeon Bong-seong

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played 18 times in Singapore and made no other mark on the sport. Geschichte (talk) 19:20, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:23, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:27, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:22, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lee Tae-young

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played 361 minutes in China and in a couple of lower leagues. Geschichte (talk) 19:18, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:23, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:27, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination. Corresponding article on Korean Wikipedia is also a stub. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:49, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Transfermarkt notes that he has one assist and zero goals in six games. If we add to that the few independent sources on the subject that talk about the player, I fail to see the relevance. --181.197.42.150 (talk) 15:48, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination. Corresponding article on Korean Wikipedia is also unsourced. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:50, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:21, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Daiki Goto

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. In 5 years, he has played 14 matches in the third league of Japan. Geschichte (talk) 19:22, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:22, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:24, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:21, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lim Choong-hyun

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Already notability-tagged for three years, so it's time for a discussion to decide. Geschichte (talk) 19:21, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:22, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:24, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. asilvering (talk) 02:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lauren Anne Asher

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Page appears to fail WP:N, WP:SPORTSPERSON, WP:BIO for equestrians, not notable, few RS on this individual to warrant encyclopedic entry, listing existence could be seen as promotional for this person's business. The events that are described in this person's bio: FEI North American Continental Championships in 2014, 2015 and 2017,silver medal during the Championships in 2017 and won all U25 classes --are not the highest level of international competition and many individuals could have listings here. Maybe this competitor will become an international level performer but is not currently. Nayyn (talk) 18:38, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Article meet WP:BIO as quoted from the page "A sportsperson is presumed to be notable if the person has won a significant honor and so is likely to have received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject"Tesleemah 08:20, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What of these wins is considered "a significant honor"? None of these are at international level.

Re:The concept of significant honour is not clearly stated, they Afterall won a national award and some Olympics.Tesleemah 08:01, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They did not go to the Olympics Nayyn (talk) 19:29, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. Alvaldi (talk) 20:06, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:24, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which of these wins is considered "a significant honor"? None of these are at international level." + "Maybe this competitor will become an international level performer but is not currently." is both incorrect. The FEI North American Championships is a significant international championship in equestrian sport and being on the podium is a high recognition as young talent in dressage. Also the U25 division this athlete competed, is an international recognized class and winning in Wellington is a significant prestige in equestrian sport.

Above comments added by Rytter192 on 17:10, 5 October 2024

Delete since subject fails WP:NPERSON and clearly does not meet WP:SPORTSPERSON. Wikipedia is not a directory of athletes. Tellingly, in WP:SPORTSPERSON the key word in the sentence "A sportsperson is presumed to be notable if the person has won a significant honor" is significant. -The Gnome (talk) 20:14, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. No evidence of meeting SPORTCRIT, which is required for this athlete. JoelleJay (talk) 00:05, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Mojo Hand (talk) 22:19, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Eli Oudenryn

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. No evidence of notability. JTtheOG (talk) 18:58, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 07:32, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as probably too soon. Doesn't meet the criteria for notability NealeWellington (talk) 05:30, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete no significant coverage nor general notability provided. --Old-AgedKid (talk) 14:11, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Draftify‎. for those who see potential. This is one where the now blocked editor didn't start from someone else's draft Star Mississippi 13:50, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Max Conway

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Article creator has been indef blocked for repeatedly creating non-notable articles; PROD removed by an IP now blocked as a sock. This is another example of a well-written but ultimately non-notable article - young footballer who fails WP:GNG. Giant Snowman 17:29, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Rather ho-hum career as the chart filled with zeros shows. I don't see notability; sources are simple match reports. Source 14 is probably the best, but it's not enough. Oaktree b (talk) 20:51, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Stats sites and WP:ROUTINE coverage don't do it. TarnishedPath^talk 12:03, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draft: May be WP:TOOSOON. Player now growing EFL appearances so possibly notable in the future. Paul W (talk) 16:34, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – The player may become notable in the medium term, but with the precedent of indiscriminate creation by a single contributor, deleting seems fair to me. Svartner (talk) 18:21, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep for me, sorry, but playing League Two can be enough for me, although weak, I see potential, [2], Govvy (talk) 08:20, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:27, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

William Fitzgerald (footballer, born 1999)

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Article creator has been indef blocked for repeatedly creating non-notable articles; PROD removed by an IP now blocked as a sock. This is another example of a well-written but ultimately non-notable article - semi-pro footballer who fails WP:GNG. Giant Snowman 17:31, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – The player may become notable in the medium term, but with the precedent of indiscriminate creation by a single contributor, deleting seems fair to me. Svartner (talk) 18:20, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep~~ – He's a PROFESSIONAL footballer for Sligo and has been for a few years now, I'm Sligo fan and from the references it passes [WP:GNG]] as it's a footballers biography and ALL of the sources are reliable.2A06:5902:180C:5800:39BD:C997:94B6:8E85 12:20, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Sock struck. Giant Snowman 19:47, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Leaving out the fact that the creator of this article had several indiscriminate creations, this player does have a established career and seems notable. He had played in the top tier of Irish football (a fully professinal league) since 2017 with a total of more than 150 games. Furthermore, the player had also appeared and scored in UEFA Europa Conference League qualifiers. I think there should be references to make it passes WP:GNG.

Lâm (talk) 14:59, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then where are there? He is an active player, so should be internet news articles about him? Giant Snowman 19:48, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:GNG due to lack of WP:SIGCOV. Alvaldi (talk) 20:08, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. If someone wants to work on this in draft space, start with the more comprehensive version that was deleted by G13. Happy to restore. Star Mississippi 13:40, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Owen Lunt

AfDs for this article:

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Another example of a well-written but ultimately non-notable article - young footballer who fails WP:GNG. Creator has been indef blocked for repeatedly creating non-notable articles. Giant Snowman 14:31, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – The player may become notable in the medium term, but with the precedent of indiscriminate creation by a single contributor, deleting seems fair to me. Svartner (talk) 18:20, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draft However if there is already an article in draft space then delete. Govvy (talk) 08:59, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 00:22, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Patrick Gamble (footballer)

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Another example of a well-written but ultimately non-notable article - young footballer who fails WP:GNG. Creator has been indef blocked for repeatedly creating non-notable articles. Giant Snowman 14:33, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – The player may become notable in the medium term, but with the precedent of indiscriminate creation by a single contributor, deleting seems fair to me.. Svartner (talk) 18:19, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 14:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 18:10, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draft Uncertain if he will ever play at a higher level, but still on the books at Blackburn, my suggestion is to draft the article as one for the future. Govvy (talk) 21:52, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 13:00, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dávid Petrík

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The article of this young Slovak men's footballer has been tagged for notability issues since April 2022. He played a total of 378 minutes in the Slovakia's highest league to date. In terms of reliable secondary sources, I only found passing mentions from squad list, such as Ref 1 and Ref 2). Considering that almost no Slovak clubs are well-known outside their countries, I don't see this article as a potential draft. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 12:37, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:24, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Disregarding all of the socks, there is a clear consensus to Delete this article. And, looking at this article, the subject is only 18 years old maybe he will become notable when his career is longer than a year or two. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:34, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seyed Ali Mousavi Nour

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Fails notability, the whole article is about trying to sell his achievements as something important. never won a major senior medal. never even participated in a major event. his medal (if true) is just in youth level. Sports2021 (talk) 01:29, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No record of him competing at any adult tournament. Only success has come in youth categories, which has never been sufficient to show WP notability. Reports of team results do not constitute significant independent coverage. Fails to meet WP:GNG, WP:BIO, or any SNG. I also see the AfD notification on the article's page keeps getting removed by IP addresses. Papaursa (talk) 23:13, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep In the sport of karate, unlike many other sports, there is no significant distinction between youth and adult competitions in terms of prestige and recognition. In fact, both youth and adult categories are considered to be on the same level, with no difference in the value and importance of their achievements. This is a point that is often not fully understood by those who lack expertise in karate. Many non-specialists and even some media outlets may assume that youth competitions are less significant than adult ones, whereas in reality, youth competitions in karate are held with the same level of difficulty and professionalism, and the medals earned in both categories hold equal prestige and value. This is especially true in major continental tournaments like the Asian Championships, which are organized under the authority of the World Karate Federation (WKF). The medals and achievements in these tournaments are recognized and recorded globally as significant accomplishments. These competitions are of the same caliber as adult events, and in many cases, athletes who win medals in the youth category quickly go on to achieve success on the international adult stage as well. This misunderstanding about the differences between age categories often leads to the undervaluation of athletes' achievements. However, from the perspective of experts and those deeply familiar with the structure of karate, it is clear that such successes, even in the youth categories, are by no means of lesser value compared to adult categories. This article, much like the article on Zohreh Barzegar, which highlights similar achievements in karate, should not be deleted. The value and significance of these accomplishments are comparable to those of other professional athletes whose articles remain on Wikipedia, and removing this article due to a lack of understanding of the sport’s structure would result in disregarding a legitimate and recognized achievement.InfoExplorer2023 (talk) 20:10, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
— InfoExplorer2023 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Delete fails notability WP:ATHLETE. The article is a mess with links to official, medal, team, gold medal. The only claim to notability is a medal at the 2021 Asian Championship which is not sufficient to support notability by itself. Mostly routine event coverage and doesn't meet WP:GNG. Lekkha Moun (talk) 16:09, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep In defense of keeping the article, several key points need to be considered. Firstly, karate is a martial art with its own complexities, which may not be easily understood by everyone. Unlike more popular sports like football, karate requires specialized knowledge and experience to properly assess an athlete's achievements. In this case, the article may seem brief, but that doesn’t mean it's not valuable; rather, it's currently a stub article. According to Wikipedia's stub guidelines, this article has the potential to be expanded over time by editors who are knowledgeable in karate.Regarding notability, it's important to reference WP:ATHLETE. According to this guideline, sporting achievements at the international level are inherently notable and warrant the creation of a standalone article. Winning a medal at the 2021 Asian Championship is just one example of this athlete’s success, and it is significant enough to demonstrate their notability. WP:ATHLETE explicitly mentions that success in reputable international competitions is a valid criterion for notability. Additionally, from the perspective of WP:GNG (General Notability Guideline), the article includes reliable and credible sources that provide sufficient coverage to verify the athlete’s notability. The sources cited in the article go beyond just the medal at the Asian Championship and provide a broader context of the athlete’s career and accomplishments, which can be expanded upon as the article grows. Lastly, the argument about WP:TOOSOON should not be used as a reason for deletion. This athlete is already recognized on an international level, and deleting the article due to perceived premature coverage would only hinder the development of more information about them. Wikipedia is a platform meant to collect and expand knowledge, and this article not only meets the notability guidelines but also represents an opportunity for further improvement by editors with expertise in karate. Given these points, deleting the article would not only be a mistake but would also contradict Wikipedia’s own policies. The article adheres to the notability guidelines and should remain so that it can be further developed, allowing the athlete’s achievements to be fully documented over time.BookLover070 (talk) 18:08, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
— BookLover070 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
~~Keep~~ The issue of deleting certain sports articles, particularly regarding karate, requires careful and in-depth consideration. In this discipline, competitions and medals directly reflect the high level of skill and experience of the athletes. Karate, as a martial art, demands advanced techniques and high concentration, which can only be achieved through continuous practice and competition at the adult level.In karate, there is no separation between age categories, and all competitions are held in a professional and competitive manner. Winning a medal in Asian competitions, regardless of age, demonstrates the high abilities and skills of this athlete at an international level.Deleting these articles is not only incorrect but also unjustifiable from the perspective of the documentation and credibility of Wikipedia's sources. These articles can remain as reliable references in the field of karate and contribute to documenting the history and achievements of athletes.Therefore, based on my expertise in Wikipedia and the sport of karate, I firmly state that this article should be preserved to enhance the recognition of karate athletes' achievements and to document the history of this sport within Wikipedia.BookLover070 (talk) 19:22, 28 September 2024 (UTC) (striking duplicate vote, you can only cast one bolded vote. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:14, 29 September 2024 (UTC))[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:13, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The subject doesn't seem to meet notability per the above arguments. They also seem to be an actor of sorts from what my attempt to find sources showed me, though none of the roles they have been involved in seem to be major, either.--Brocade River Poems (She/They) 02:32, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In response to the request for deleting the article, there are several key points that need to be considered. Firstly, Google News, as a search and news distribution tool, does not always display reliable sources and may not cover all relevant sources due to various reasons, including algorithmic flaws. However, this issue should not be the primary criterion for deciding whether to keep or delete an article on Wikipedia.

This article is about an Iranian athlete who has achieved significant success in the field of karate. We must keep in mind that many Persian news outlets, due to their target audience and geographical focus, have covered this individual’s achievements more extensively than foreign news outlets. Therefore, in cases related to Iranian figures, using Persian sources as reliable references is of great importance.

Moreover, international sources show that this person is not only a top-level sports champion but also has an active career in Iranian cinema as both an actor and a director. This combination of skills and achievements in two distinct fields (sports and cinema) highlights the notable value of this individual. 5.233.235.145 (talk) 06:36, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just wanted to note for what it's worth that I've plugged the above text into an AI Generated Text detector and it said 99% Probability AI generated. The response by InfoExplorer2023 was flagged as 95% probability of being AI Generated, and BookLover070 at 100%. Furthermore, given the IP Address geolocates to Khuzestan and the subject of the article appears to be from Khuzestan according to his Wikipedia article, it feels like WP:COI is probably afoot. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 03:54, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

KeepThe article about this Karate athlete should be preserved, and any attempts to delete it should be avoided. According to Wikipedia's guidelines, articles about notable athletes with significant achievements at the national or international level meet the criteria for retention on Wikipedia. This Karate athlete is a recognized champion with valuable medals at the continental level in Asia, which is considered one of the highest levels of international competition.Regarding sources, the article includes reliable and credible sources that have covered this champion in various media outlets and publications. According to Wikipedia's rules, such sources are sufficient to establish significant coverage (SIGCOV) and demonstrate notability. Especially in sports, champions who hold high-level medals, such as Asian championships, are clearly notable at both continental and global levels.A similar article, such as the one about Negin Altooni, who also has similar medals and notability in the field of Karate, demonstrates that such articles not only deserve to be kept but also serve as a reference for recognizing these champions within the community. This athlete, with international achievements and participation in continental and global competitions, clearly meets the notability requirements, and the article should be preserved in line with Wikipedia’s policies.Therefore, the request to delete this article is unfounded, and based on the sources and Wikipedia's rules, the article fully meets the criteria for notability and significant coverage.5.233.235.145 (talk) 06:18, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

— 5.233.235.145 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Quite likely another sockpuppet. Papaursa (talk) 15:14, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Disregarding socks, there is a clear consensus to Delete. It looks like there are a lot more of these types of articles in Category:Iranian martial arts biography stubs. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:38, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hadi Kiani

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Fails notability, never achieved anything important. the article tries to show him as a two time Asian Championship medalist but that's not in senior level. Sports2021 (talk) 01:26, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Non notable athlete. Fails sports notability and WP:GNG. Lekkha Moun (talk) 15:46, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Success at youth martial arts events does not show WP notability, nor does a current world rank of #550. Nothing that shows WP:GNG, WP:BIO, WP:MANOTE, or any other SNG is met. Papaursa (talk) 23:21, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep In karate, unlike many other sports, there is no significant difference between the youth (under-21) and adult competitions in terms of credibility and status. In fact, both the youth and adult categories are evaluated at the same level, and there is no distinction in the value and importance of their achievements. This is often misunderstood by those who lack sufficient expertise in this sport. Many uninformed individuals, including some media outlets, may assume that youth competitions are less important than adult competitions. However, the reality is that youth competitions in karate are held with the same level of difficulty and seriousness, and the medals earned in both categories hold equal credibility and value.Particularly in prestigious continental events like the Asian Championships, which are overseen by the World Karate Federation (WKF), the medals are recognized as global successes. The quality of these competitions does not differ from that of adult competitions, and in many cases, athletes who achieve medals in the youth category quickly find remarkable success at the international adult level as well.This misunderstanding regarding the differences between age categories leads some individuals to fail to recognize the valuable achievements of athletes. However, from the perspective of experts and those who are deeply familiar with the structure of karate, such successes, even in the youth category, are by no means less significant than those in the adult category.Please advise users who lack sufficient knowledge about this sport not to remove templates or edit the article, as doing so only harms the integrity of information, such as that found on Wikipedia in English, and spreads misinformation about karate. Maintaining accuracy and reliability in the discourse surrounding this sport is essential.InfoExplorer2023 (talk) 20:50, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The issue of deleting certain sports articles, particularly regarding karate, requires careful and in-depth consideration. In this discipline, competitions and medals directly reflect the high level of skill and experience of the athletes. Karate, as a martial art, demands advanced techniques and high concentration, which can only be achieved through continuous practice and competition at the adult level.In karate, there is no separation between age categories, and all competitions are held in a professional and competitive manner. Winning a medal in Asian competitions, regardless of age, demonstrates the high abilities and skills of this athlete at an international level.Deleting these articles is not only incorrect but also unjustifiable from the perspective of the documentation and credibility of Wikipedia's sources. These articles can remain as reliable references in the field of karate and contribute to documenting the history and achievements of athletes.Therefore, based on my expertise in Wikipedia and the sport of karate, I firmly state that this article should be preserved to enhance the recognition of karate athletes' achievements and to document the history of this sport within Wikipedia.BookLover070 (talk) 19:18, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Just as any editor can participate in an AFD discussion, except for limited editing restrictions, any editor can edit any article. We don't test anyone's knowledge before permitting them to edit an article as the policies that govern all articles are the same.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:12, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Disregarding the socks, there is a clear consensus to Delete. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:36, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Amirreza Borzooei

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Fails notability, never won a major medal. the article shows he won 2 Asian Championships bronze medals but they were in youth and junior level, no senior medal yet. Sports2021 (talk) 01:21, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No indication of ever competing at a major (continental or world) event as an adult. Another competitor with youth continental championships that don't show WP notability. No evidence of meeting WP:GNG, WP:BIO, WP:MANOTE, or any other SNG. He finished second at one adult event and has a current world ranking of #53. He's young and has potential, but it's WP:TOOSOON to say he's WP notable. That currently requires a WP:CRYSTALBALL. Papaursa (talk) 23:33, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep In the world of karate, one of the unique features is that competitions for youth and adults are regarded equally in terms of value and importance, with neither group having superiority over the other. Unlike many other sports that often view youth competitions as a preliminary stage, in karate, both age categories are judged by the same standards, and the achievements and medals of both groups hold equal significance. This reality may seem unfamiliar to those who are not fully acquainted with karate, and some individuals or media may mistakenly perceive that youth competitions are less important than those for adults. However, the truth is that youth competitions are held with similar challenges and difficulties as those for adults, and the medals earned at both levels are equally credible and valuable.For example, in prestigious events like the Asian Championships, which are organized under the auspices of the World Karate Federation (WKF), the medals won are recognized as international successes, and the quality of competition is in no way inferior to that of adult events. It is noteworthy that athletes who achieve medals in the youth category often quickly find success at the international adult level as well. These misconceptions about the value of achievements in different age categories can lead to misunderstandings. However, experts and those familiar with the structure and complexities of karate clearly understand that success in any age category—whether youth or adult—is equally important and significant, and one should not regard the value of one over the other as lesser.InfoExplorer2023 (talk) 20:21, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

— InfoExplorer2023 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Keep The issue of deleting certain sports articles, particularly regarding karate, requires careful and in-depth consideration. In this discipline, competitions and medals directly reflect the high level of skill and experience of the athletes. Karate, as a martial art, demands advanced techniques and high concentration, which can only be achieved through continuous practice and competition at the adult level.In karate, there is no separation between age categories, and all competitions are held in a professional and competitive manner. Winning a medal in Asian competitions, regardless of age, demonstrates the high abilities and skills of this athlete at an international level.Deleting these articles is not only incorrect but also unjustifiable from the perspective of the documentation and credibility of Wikipedia's sources. These articles can remain as reliable references in the field of karate and contribute to documenting the history and achievements of athletes.Therefore, based on my expertise in Wikipedia and the sport of karate, I firmly state that this article should be preserved to enhance the recognition of karate athletes' achievements and to document the history of this sport within Wikipedia.BookLover070 (talk) 19:13, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I'd like to hear from some experienced editors. New editors, please refer to Wikipedia policy and describe how the sources that exist provide SIGCOV. This is required to establish notabiity, as Wikipedia judges it, not as it is understood in the world of Karate.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:10, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, far from meeting WP:SPORTCRIT. The claims made by "keepers" above are strange, and the article is also disingenuously fluffed-up with claims of pursuing "karate professionally" at the age of 7. Geschichte (talk) 08:53, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:58, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pavel Abramov

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The subject does not have enough news coverage. Mysecretgarden (talk) 23:06, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - he won a bronze medal in the Olympics, and that’s verified. Maybe I’m mistaken, but isn’t that automatically notable? Bearian (talk) 18:18, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Not exactly. It does meet WP:NOLY, but that only says sigcov is 'likely to exist'. No modern Olympic medalist has ever been deleted, however. From a glance, it looks near-certain that this athlete has sigcov – we just have to find it... BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:47, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, does not need news coverage now, only from when he was active. Geschichte (talk) 16:40, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, there is plenty of coverage in non-English sources. Try searching "Paweł Abramow" for Polish sources or "Павел Абрамов" for Russian. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 04:52, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dmitri Pestryakov

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I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV for this Russian footballer. Seems like the article creator moved the draft to the mainspace. JTtheOG (talk) 01:40, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 13:04, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Per nom. Everything I'm finding is pretty run of the mill and insignificant. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:41, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - probably WP:TOOSOON. I found Premier Liga, which shows that he had an impressive match recently. I also found an image caption in August News but there is little else in Russian and the Russian Wikipedia doesn't give any SIGCOV either. It's a shame that this got moved out of draft space as that wouldn't have been a bad place. Since this would only be moved back if draftified, I have to support deletion. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:51, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify – Has the potential to become notable during the current season. Svartner (talk) 18:14, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:15, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chong Tsun

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I am unable to find enough coverage of this footballer to meet WP:GNG after using different search terms in different scripts, which is understandable as he has seemingly played one game. Sources in the articles are databases and social medias. JTtheOG (talk) 01:34, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 13:04, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per the lack of significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. There is insufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Chong Tsun (traditional Chinese: 莊晉; simplified Chinese: 庄晋) to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 09:58, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:27, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lily Dent

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WP:TOOSOON for an article at the moment. All I found were routine transactional announcements (1, 2, 3, 4, etc.). JTtheOG (talk) 23:23, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 13:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Not finding the needed coverage to meet the WP:GNG. Agree with WP:TOOSOON here. Let'srun (talk) 15:59, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:13, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 11:33, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wang Xin (footballer)

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Played 6 minutes in the Chinese Super League, 15 minutes in the semi-pro Danish second tier, some more games in China League Two according to Soccerway. I don't see enough for fulfilling WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Geschichte (talk) 10:57, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 13:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:12, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 11:34, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zhong Juzhan

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Played 4 games in China League One, a few more in China League Two. I don't think this is enough for WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Geschichte (talk) 10:57, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete A relatively short career. Has not played top professional level. Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 04:09, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 13:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 11:34, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel Jubani

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6 games in Albania’s highest league, continued in the semi-pro second tier before playing one last season in the Kategoria Superiore. I couldn't find any sources to make this person meet WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. This is too brief, and this is too reliant on quotes, 2 of the 3 sections about Jubani are exclusively made up of quotes. Geschichte (talk) 10:49, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 13:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:11, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 11:36, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Albert Kaçiku

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Never played in Albania’s highest league, only that of Kosovo, as well as the semi-pro second tier in Albania and Austrian Regionalliga. What I find is either way too short [3] [4] [5], not really about him [6] [7] [8] or the usual database and social media hits. There is one articles with a tendency towards significance, which is this. What do you think? Geschichte (talk) 10:54, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 13:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:06, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lauren Lam

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Fails NBAD and BLP. Stvbastian (talk) 06:19, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete this is coverage but it is just generic reporting on tournaments and not in-depth secondary coverage. Traumnovelle (talk) 06:48, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per the lack of significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. There is insufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Lauren Lam to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 09:20, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:28, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kang Khai Xing

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Fails NBAD and BLP Stvbastian (talk) 06:17, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:03, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:58, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Promotion; definitely not notable person PPOP101 (talk) 18:17, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Kudos to Prince of Erebor for updating the article and adding the additional sources. Mojo Hand (talk) 13:20, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jason Gunawan

AfDs for this article:

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Fails NBAD. Stvbastian (talk) 06:16, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Addition: I have read the 1st nomination, but no one cares about this article. Better this article move to draft.Stvbastian (talk) 06:30, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:
People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.
- If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.
Sources
1. Ho, Kelly (2020-01-06). "Diocesan Boys' School student and badminton star Jason Gunawan follows in his father's footsteps". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "At some point, every athlete dreams of making it to the Olympics, but local badminton prodigy Jason Gunawan has had his heart set on competing at the sporting event since he was four years old. Jason, who celebrated his second consecutive win in the boys’ singles event at the All Hong Kong Schools Jing Ying Tournament last Monday, says he has been dreaming of Olympic glory ever since he watched Chinese player Lin Dan take gold at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. ... A love of badminton runs in Jason’s family. His father, a Chinese Indonesian, used to play for the Jakarta province team. As a child, Jason would head to the local sports centre with his father every Sunday to practise, eventually earning a spot on the Hong Kong junior team. He now trains 30 hours a week at the Hong Kong Sports Institute, but still finds time to practise with his dad, his biggest supporter."
2. Cheung, Ka-Wa 徐嘉華 (2024-05-25). "羽毛球｜由外圍賽打至8強止步吳英倫下月生日願望：今年闖入世界排名頭30" [Badminton｜ From qualifying to the top 8, Jason Gunawan's birthday wish next month: to break into the top 30 in the world this year]. Sing Tao Daily (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "父母是印尼華僑的Jason，曾於2020年以最年輕球手（當時16歲）奪全港錦標賽男單冠軍，可惜一場疫情斷送足足3年的青少年比賽，直到2022年5月才開始由低（國際挑戰賽級別）打起，... Jason今年初繼續參加「國際挑戰賽」，亦遇到一些「超級300」的比賽，世界排名由年初105位到本月泰國公開賽（超級500）時是96位，他在該賽的16強，遇上世界排名第5的日本球星奈良岡功大，雙方拉鋸3局，港將只在決勝局輸「刁時」（21:11、 15:21、20:22)，世界排名升至本周的83位。"
  From Google Translate: "Jason, whose parents are Indonesian overseas Chinese, won the men's singles championship in the Hong Kong Championships in 2020 as the youngest golfer (16 years old at the time). Unfortunately, a pandemic ruined the youth competition for three full years, and it was not until May 2022 that it started. Starting from a low (International Challenge level),... Jason continued to participate in the "International Challenge" at the beginning of this year, and also encountered some "Super 300" competitions. His world ranking increased from 105th at the beginning of the year to this month's Thailand Open (Super 500). ) was ranked 96th at the time. In the top 16 of the tournament, he met Japanese star Kodai Naraoka, who was ranked fifth in the world. The two sides went back and forth for 3 games. The Hong Kong player only lost to "Diao Shi" in the decisive game (21:11, 15 :21, 20:22), the world ranking rose to 83rd this week."
3. Chan, Kin-wa (2020-11-15). "Jason Gunawan crowned youngest-ever Hong Kong men's badminton champion at 16". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "Jason Gunawan became the youngest-ever men’s singles champion at the annual Hong Kong badminton championships at Kowloon Park Sports Centre on Sunday, thanks partly to his decision to turn to full-time training amid the pandemic. Just three months after cutting short his secondary school studies to pursue a full-time sporting career at the Sports Institute, the 16-year-old teenager reigned supreme in the three-game final against Chan Yin-chak, winning 21-19, 17-21, 21-13 to put himself in the record books."
4. Chan, Kin-wa (2020-12-01). "Young gun Jason Gunawan sets sights on winning Olympic gold for Hong Kong". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "Outside of Hong Kong there is badminton legend Tony Gunawan, the 2000 Sydney Olympic men’s doubles champion of Indonesia. Here in Hong Kong there is 16-year-old Jason Gunawan, a fast-rising talent now setting his sights on becoming another Olympic gold-medal winner like his namesake. ... Gunawan will not be present in Tokyo either as he is still competing in junior events, but the 2024 Paris Games will be his first attempt at making the step up to Olympic level, with the Los Angeles Games four years later his major target for a medal. ... Born in Hong Kong with an Indonesian-Chinese father, Gunawan was destined to make a name in badminton before he was even born, he said."
5. Ng, Chia Yin (2024-05-24). "Jason: I thank coach Wong for helping me grow". The Star. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "Hong Kong’s rising star Jason Gunawan appreciated coach Wong Choong Hann’s role in the growth of his career after checking into the men’s singles quarter-finals in the Malaysian Masters. ... Jason, who will be turning 20 next month, is expecting a tougher job against world No. 19 Lu Guangzu of China next but looking forward to gaining invaluable experience."
6. Chiu, Tsz-chun 趙子晉 (2023-09-14). "羽毛球．香港賽｜李卓耀不敵基斯迪衛冕失敗　吳英倫力追世界距離" [Badminton: Hong Kong Open｜ Lee Cheuk Yiu Fails to Defend Title Against Kistkidis, Jason Gunawan Closes the Gap to World Rankings] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "吳英倫決勝局初段把握對方情緒不穩，多次放高波予甘克起板，Jason曾經領先5：2，甘克一度滑倒倒地。惟Jason體力有所下降，... 年僅19歲的吳英倫，以往主力出戰青年賽為主，就算越級挑戰成年組也是大多是國際挑戰賽級別，主場的香港賽是他生涯首個BWF 500分的賽事。"
  From Google Translate: "Jason Gunawan took advantage of his opponent's emotional instability in the early stage of the decisive game and sent high waves to Gan Ke several times. Jason once led 5:2, but Gan Ke once slipped and fell to the ground. But Jason's physical strength has declined... Jason Gunawan, who is only 19 years old, has mainly competed in youth competitions in the past. Even if he jumps to the adult group, most of them are international challenge competitions. The Hong Kong competition at home is his first BWF 500 in his career. points competition."
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Jason Gunawan (traditional Chinese: 吳英倫; simplified Chinese: 吴英伦) to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 09:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The first two sources—the South China Morning Post and Sing Tao Daily articles—provide substantial coverage about the subject, which enable him to meet Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline. The other sources also provide significant to less significant coverage about him (they discuss him in their headlines and cover biographical details about him in the article). The sources all contribute to notability because Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria says "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability." Cunard (talk) 09:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to solicit more opinions.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:19, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or Speedy keep per WP:CSK#1b. There is no new deletion rationale presented in this nomination compared to the previous one which was closed as keep. The sources cited by Cunard are literally identical to those listed in the previous nomination, and multiple Wikipedians have already reviewed and affirmed that these sources are sufficient to meet GNG. Deletion is not cleanup. I do not see a point to delete/drafity an article when numerous usable sources are already presented. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 14:49, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: If the article should be keep, the statements and the sources should be move to Jason Gunawan wikipedia article. It is very uncomfortable to see the article with that statement: "Jason Gunawan is a Hong Kong badminton player." In other words, if i just look at the statement, there is nothing special about the subject. But, i still in my opinion to draft this article. Because it is too soon for a badminton player that did not meet NBAD. Stvbastian (talk) 15:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Stvbastian: User:Cherryonbottom and I have expanded the article using the sources above, and I have added an additional source from HK01. I believe it is very obvious now that the article meets GNG. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 17:03, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate. Thank you Stvbastian (talk) 20:50, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:GNG, he has received significant coverage in multiple independent sources which is enough for WP:NBASIC.

On my reading of WP:NBAD, since this article was nominated he now meets that as well. He reached the semi-finals at the BWF HK Open, but I couldn't find coverage. But this[9] documents that plus his semi-final appearance at the BWF Macau Open. Oblivy (talk) 15:10, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: @Oblivy fyi, finished as semi-finalists in the BWF World Tour (example: Hong Kong Open or Macau Open) still did not satisfied NBAD. Only finalists (the winner and runner-up) who step on the podium in the BWF World Tour. Stvbastian (talk) 16:30, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, That's why I gave two independent reasons to keep the article. Oblivy (talk) 21:58, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:02, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Li Xiang (footballer, born 1989)

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I had difficulty finding any sources in English. The current article doesn't even list number of appearances. Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. Would reconsider if there are decent sources in Chinese. LibStar (talk) 05:34, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: per WP:NATHLETE, they don't seem to have done anything notable or are mentioned in many sources. Sir MemeGod  12:26, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 13:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:11, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Some old passing mentions;[10] more recently in 2022 appeared in the news for overstaying his visa.[11] --Paul_012 (talk) 12:36, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to Football at the 2014 Asian Games – Men's team squads#North Korea. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:00, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yun Il-gwang

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 04:55, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Football at the 2014 Asian Games – Men's team squads#North Korea as ATD, where his name is mentioned. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:00, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 13:03, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect: as per above. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 ^{[𝚃𝙰𝙻𝙺]} 02:43, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect – Per all above. Svartner (talk) 18:11, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to Football at the 1976 Summer Olympics – Men's team squads#North Korea. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:15, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Mu-gil

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 04:05, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Could find no sources. Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT and WP:NOLY. LibStar (talk) 04:13, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect to Football at the 1976 Summer Olympics – Men's team squads#North Korea as ATD where his name is mentioned. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 11:27, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 13:03, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect: as per above. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 ^{[𝚃𝙰𝙻𝙺]} 02:41, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect – Per all above. Svartner (talk) 18:10, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. asilvering (talk) 22:37, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kian Breckin

AfDs for this article:

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Bringing this here for discussion since Draft:Kian Breckin and Draft:Kian Breckin (footballer) had been declined on multiple occasions, and the editor who created the mainspace version has some problematic creations. I feel like this needs discussion to see if Breckin is notable. Star Mississippi 20:51, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep – Sufficiently referenced to pass in WP:GNG and this version is better than the others as it contains at least one example of WP:SIGCOV and passes under the WP:NSPORT due to the other coverage. EnglishDude98 21:10, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
NB that EnglishDude98 has since been indeffed for repeatedly creating non-notable footballer articles... Giant Snowman 16:16, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I believe a few sources go beyond the general routine coverage and discuss details about him. Enough for WP:BASIC. And he is playing games. Govvy (talk) 08:27, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – A year later and there is still no SIGCOV just routine transfer stories. Dougal18 (talk) 14:57, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 13:01, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I'm seeing one good source at most when disregarding stats sites and WP:ROUTINE coverage. TarnishedPath^talk 11:57, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Coverage falls very short of GNG, with just routine transactional news and non-SIGCOV YOUNGATH-failing pieces. JoelleJay (talk) 03:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This article seems to go beyond routine transfer coverage toward WP:SIGCOV, but otherwise there's not enough for WP:GNG. I'd normally say draftify since it seems like just a case of WP:TOOSOON, but that was the previous AfD result and it was not respected. Dclemens1971 (talk) 22:14, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Owen× ☎ 00:11, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

John-Paul Tran

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WP:TOOSOON for an article at the moment. This article should wait until there is some actual WP:SIGCOV of the subject, who is still a child athlete. JTtheOG (talk) 19:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Could not find any coverage besides a singular mention [12] (not including the 1 source on the article). Fails WP:NATHLETE. Sir MemeGod  21:53, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would also support draftification per the nomination until Tran gets more coverage. Sir MemeGod  21:54, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: No coverage found, and a long way from being a notable athlete for our purposes here. I don't even thing drafting would help, still a young competitor, not competing on the national level Oaktree b (talk) 23:03, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No significant independent coverage found. WP:MANOTE talks about notable artists need to be at least adult black belts, winning junior events has never been considered WP notable in MA. No reason to draftify this article. When he meets either WP:GNG or an SNG, the article will need to be rewritten then. According to coverage, this event had less than 200 competitors ages 5 to 17 competing in over 40 divisions. Papaursa (talk) 22:17, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete As per nom and Papaursa. Fails WP:NATHLETE Lekkha Moun (talk) 10:06, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I think its important to note that John-Paul Tran was recently featured on the front page of Nguoi-Viet news. The article (which is only available in Vietnamese) can be found here.

In light of this it's clear that John-Paul has a substantial enough presence to have a Wikipedia article. Dima Nekhoroshyi (talk) 20:27, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't looked into anything else here, but I can confirm that this is significant coverage. -- asilvering (talk) 22:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:16, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment@Sir MemeGod: @Oaktree b: @Papaursa: @Lekkha Moun: Tagging participants in case new source changes their !vote. JTtheOG (talk) 20:02, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's really only one source, we still need more to show notability. Oaktree b (talk) 21:55, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment It's a local newspaper and most of the article consists of quotes from John-Paul or his father. The rest is information they clearly supplied, like his past and future competitions. I don't think this source qualifies as "significant, independent coverage" and, even if it did, it would still just be one source. Still no evidence of meeting WP:GNG. Papaursa (talk) 22:23, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Very loose article, at the moment its relevance is very weak. 181.197.42.215 (talk) 05:07, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to List of Goa cricketers as a viable ATD Star Mississippi 22:07, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agam Manohar Pandit

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This biography of a businessman and former youth cricketer fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. There is no WP:SIGCOV of Pandit, only WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS of his participation on a team, and no WP:SIGCOV of his business career either. At best it's WP:BLP1E for the U-15 Cricket World Cup (but that's not even a valid redirect since there's no page on that competition), but even then he doesn't qualify for a standalone page. Contested PROD. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect. He did play cricket at senior domestic level for Goa, making two first-class and List A appearances apiece; however, he didn't do much in these matches. A redirect to List of Goa cricketers is a suitable WP:ATD. AA (talk) 20:06, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Per nom. All sources are very poor with stat, an entry, passing mention about sitting out of the game, another passing mention that just says, Agam Pandit and ADC Energy Prepare for COP28, and last one about being appointed as selector and the end note of this source says "The above press release has been provided by VMPL. ANI will not be responsible in any way for the content of the same." There is no significant coverage of his role as businessman. No significant achievements noteworthy nationally and internationally to satisfy notability about the subject role as cricketer. Fails WP:SIGCOV, WP:NBIO, WP:NSPORT. RangersRus (talk) 22:18, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. – References are passing mentions, press releases, etc. Not enough news coverage.Mysecretgarden (talk) 23:15, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Owen× ☎ 19:28, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Khoan Soben

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No WP:SIGCOV for this Cambodian footballer; result is the subject fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:20, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 13:00, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:09, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Owen× ☎ 19:28, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kong Lyhour

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No WP:SIGCOV to be found for this footballer; fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:15, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 12:59, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:09, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. RL0919 (talk) 14:05, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kristína Košíková

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I cannot find any evidence of notability for this Slovak women's footballer. The only secondary source I found is an interview, but nothing else to pass WP:GNG. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 12:59, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 23:54, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 10:34, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ahn Seok-ho

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No indication of meeting WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT, tagged as BLP lacking sources for 15 years. PROD has been tried before. Geschichte (talk) 07:19, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 00:50, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 12:59, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: as per above. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 ^{[𝚃𝙰𝙻𝙺]} 02:33, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: WP:GNG one sentence, no sources. Article has been sitting for 15 years in this state. RachelTensions (talk) 13:22, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 10:34, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kang Dong-gu

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Short career in the K-league, some games in semi-pro lower divisions. Geschichte (talk) 07:19, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 12:59, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: as per nom. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 ^{[𝚃𝙰𝙻𝙺]} 02:35, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: delete per nom rationale RachelTensions (talk) 13:24, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 23:58, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. Feel free to renominate in two months. Owen× ☎ 15:26, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cai Haojian

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played a couple of minutes in the Chinese Super League, as well as a loan in the third league. Sources are WP:ROUTINE and I don't see anything else that can help it pass. Geschichte (talk) 07:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 12:58, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep – Chinese sources (sports.sina.com.cn) demonstrate the minimum to establish WP:SIGCOV. Svartner (talk) 12:32, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 10:35, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 13:48, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Consensus that sources in the article show notability. (non-admin closure) Toadspike [Talk] 21:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Julia Arnold (footballer)

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No evidence or claim of notability. Sincerely, Guessitsavis (she/they) (Talk) 20:56, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources and Julia Arnold played in the 2022–23 DFB-Pokal Frauen final. Dwanyewest (talk) 22:17, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per GiantSnowman. This article should be notable. Karol739 (talk) 08:11, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - She is also an artist 1 (page 8 and 9) 2 (page 4 and 5). Dougal18 (talk) 12:05, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per sources in article which show notability. Giant Snowman 18:52, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 13:13, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shunkun Tani

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His claim to notability, playing 5 matches in the Japanese third league as well as some amateur competitions, is very weak. An absence of sources with significant coverage means that he fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Geschichte (talk) 12:48, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment What about the sources on ja:谷俊勲 ? Did you check them out? Govvy (talk) 19:52, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 03:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:51, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 13:12, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shunsuke Sunaga

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His claim to notability, playing 18 matches in Singapore, is weak. An absence of sources with significant coverage means that he fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Geschichte (talk) 12:47, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 03:18, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:50, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 13:14, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shun Kumagai

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His claim to notability, playing 154 minutes in the J League and 12 matches in Singapore, is weak. An absence of sources with significant coverage means that he fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Geschichte (talk) 12:48, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 03:18, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:51, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Delete While it seems like some sources could exist in languages other than English / Japanese where I can’t find them given that I don’t speak Chinese or Cambodian, the sources existing on the English and Japanese pages don’t seem to be enough to give notability, nor can I find any. Given his downwards movement through leagues it doesn’t seem likely though. Absurdum4242 (talk) 06:26, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 11:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Murad Ramazanov (fighter)

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Fails to fulfill WP:MMANOT with no wins over significant opponents, bouts only in the second tier organizations and FightMatrix ranking of #65 at highest. Also, does not seem to fulfill WP:GNG or WP:BIO. Ticelon (talk) 10:05, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete doesn't meet WP:NMMA (or WP:GNG), as he ranked #65 in the world according to fight matrix. Lekkha Moun (talk) 07:50, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Clearly fails to meet WP:NMMA. My search for sources found databases, fight announcements, and results--all of which are typical for any pro fighter. In addition, most of the references are from sources that are either deemed not reliable (like sportskeeda) or not independent (particularly One FC's articles). His ranking is probably overstated at fightmatrix since it lists 4 Russian fighters named Murad Ramazanov, all with non-overlapping fight records (which probably explains the one fight in 5 years gap in the main fighter's records). Counting the fights in the gap he no longer has his long unbeaten string or 12-2 professional record, because fightmatrix shows a 2-3 records for those "other" fighters with the same name. Papaursa (talk) 15:54, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
None of the Murad Ramazanov's are the same person, that region of Russia has many guys who share the same last names or first names, it's like Viet people and the last name Nguyen. There are pictures of the other Ramazanov's in tapology and sherdog, showing it's not the same Murad in PFL, especially since he has a distinctive look.

[13]

[14]

[15]

Murad 1 and 2 are the same person, but not the PFL Murad, and Murad 3 is a completely different guy at a different weight class HeinzMaster (talk) 16:36, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you HeinzMaster for the additional information. I guess the bottom line is still that none of the Murad Ramazanov fighters are WP notable. Papaursa (talk) 20:32, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to 2023 Rugby World Cup squads#Uruguay. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:10, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Carlos Deus

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Non-notable rugby player. No sigcov. Fails WP:SPORTBASIC. Cabrils (talk) 05:54, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to 2023 Rugby World Cup squads#Uruguay – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 21:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to see if there is support for this Redirect.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:51, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Future notability can't be ruled out, so I support a redirect. Geschichte (talk) 09:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 05:04, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Andy Dennehy

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Non-notable amateur sports person. In terms of WP:SPORTBASIC, the only coverage I can find is the stuff that I've added to the article. Most of which is not independent (like "listings" on personnel sheets of orgs with which the subject has a connection like these: [16][17][18]; Which, even if they were independent, are far from in-depth coverage). Or ROTM "match report" type passing mentions (like these: [19] [20]). In terms of WP:GNG, we barely have enough sources to establish even the sub-stub that we have. And certainly insufficient sources to expand any biographical information (DOB, place of birth, education, etc). A search in Irish news sources returns little to nothing. In the Irish Independent family of regional/national papers for example, all I can find are these two trivial passing mentions. Similar searches, in news sources like the Irish Examiner or Irish Times or RTE.ie, return nothing at all. Nothing. Not even trivial passing mentions. Notability is not established. Guliolopez (talk) 11:31, 17 September 2024 (UTC) Guliolopez (talk) 11:31, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. I know nothing about how significant American football is in Ireland. That said, being one of the initial inductees into the Hall of Fame for American football in Ireland suggests he was at a minimum a pretty big frog in a little pond. Cbl62 (talk) 20:38, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:48, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge‎ to List of Major League Baseball career double plays leaders. Consensus is trending towards merging these by-position lists to a single comprehensive one, perhaps with fewer listed per position, as a viable ATD. I am also closing the other nominated by-position lists similarly. Editors are welcome to BOLDly merge the lists mentioned here but not currently nominated, or start a discussion on the target's Talk page. Owen× ☎ 13:15, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of Major League Baseball career double plays as an outfielder leaders

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Tagged for notability over three months ago with no sourcing improvements since then. The article's references consist of an MLB rulebook which is a primary source and baseball-reference.com which is a stats database; neither count towards notability. At present, this article topic fails WP:NLIST, which requires in-depth significant coverage from independent reliable secondary sources that collate and discuss this list topic's entries together as a group or set to establish notability. A WP:BEFORE search came up empty; hence, delete. Left guide (talk) 10:29, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Similar discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Major League Baseball career double plays as a right fielder leaders. Also, this is covered by Baseball Almanac and I'd imagine baseball-reference though I haven't seen a direct source. Conyo14 (talk) 03:39, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Conyo14: Are those sources secondary and WP:SIGCOV for this topic though? Mere statistical database entries don't count towards notability; the sources need to provide fleshed out prose and context directly about this list topic. Left guide (talk) 05:08, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not advocating for a !keep. Just merely pointing out the references that are to be pointed here. Baseball Almanac is considered reliable and covers the statistical aspect. Beyond that, I'd say each record is likely to house some WP:SIGCOV from the player article. However, the grouping may not suffice for deletion. Conyo14 (talk) 06:48, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Conyo14: Well can you please provide more specific usable links (the Baseball Almanac link you supplied comes up as an error without rendering anything meaningful) or quotes of the source material so they can be judged and examined by the community? I'm afraid your argument is WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES as of the present moment. Notability is demonstrated via evidence of sufficient source material, not the belief or assertion of such. WP:Articles for deletion/List of NBA career ejections leaders is a current example of evidence-based WP:NLIST notability being demonstrated in a similar context (sports stats list). Left guide (talk) 07:08, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh it did, let me fix the link. My argument is more like, "watch out". Conyo14 (talk) 18:07, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Conyo14: Yes, I was already aware of the bundled right-fielder AfD as someone who participated there. I was referring to this Baseball Almanac external link you provided, which incurs a 404-type error. Left guide (talk) 18:17, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One thing at a time, Left guide. Conyo14 (talk) 19:58, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Conyo14: Is this the Baseball Almanac source you've been alluding to? If so, it unfortunately doesn't contribute towards WP:NLIST for this particular topic. It has a table with a collection of random outfielder double play stats (not secondary or SIGCOV), and then a "Fast Facts" section at the bottom with secondary prose about three random factoids, but nothing about this list topic specifically. Left guide (talk) 20:41, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
👍🏻 Conyo14 (talk) 22:37, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Forgot to mention in the nom that the content within the article's two sources don't discuss this list topic at all. They're being used in WP:OR/WP:SYNTH fashion to verify tangential details. And this in the external links section is not secondary or SIGCOV; raw stats tables don't count towards notability. Left guide (talk) 07:47, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge all in set Why do all these lists need to have the top 100 players? I think a List of Major League Baseball career double plays leaders that had just the top 10 at each position may be reasonable and notable. Otherwise this is data cruft that should be deleted outright. Reywas92^Talk 02:01, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge per Reywas92. I think top 10 by position is too narrow (I'd favor top 20 or 25 at each position), but the precise number can be sorted out in a talk page discussion (need not be resolved here). Cbl62 (talk) 22:35, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:38, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @Left guide: I'm not !voting here because the nom is out of balance in my opinion. Would you consider bundling all of these:
If all of these were nominated for deletion or merger into a new List of Major League Baseball career double plays leaders article, I would support that. As it is, to only nom catcher, pitcher and outfielder is a no-go for me. Pasting this comment on the catcher, pitcher and outfielder AFDs. Rgrds. --BX (talk) 04:13, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, BX,

First it's too late to make this a bundled nomination. This has to happen at the beginning of an AFD discussion, not midway through. Second, a number of these articles are already being discussed in AFD discussions. They should appear as pink links. You can voice your opinions at these discussions. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:29, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe I have commented at all that were nom'd. Don't have the pink thing installed tho. That's why I quasi-voted as a no-go for me. Rgrds. --BX (talk) 05:36, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair, I didn't even know how many were involved. I would, if Left Guide were okay with it, withdrawing our respective noms to create one mega bundle. Conyo14 (talk) 05:47, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That would be the best way forward IMO. TYVM. Rgrds. --BX (talk) 06:11, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Conyo14 and BX: As Liz (an experienced regular AfD admin) says above, we're past the point of no return in withdrawing or bundling these even if we wanted to, since there are extant non-keep !votes from other community members in basically all of these. I actually plan to nominate the remaining "double plays by position" articles sometime soon, but it takes precious time to do a thorough good-faith WP:BEFORE search for each individual article to see if there's anything encyclopedically salvageable, and other commitments both on Wikipedia and in real life means the research can't always be easily done all at once. In any case, each nomination should be treated on its own merits. Left guide (talk) 09:46, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. It seems like there is a growing consensus to Merge this article to, I think, List of Major League Baseball career double plays leaders but I'd like to see confirmation of this.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:31, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. asilvering (talk) 23:31, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yang Song-guk

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Article fails WP:GNG. Redirect to 1966 World Cup squad. Simione001 (talk) 00:43, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I saw the film The Game of Their Lives and it has sigcov on him. I kept a notebook with the content discussing him that I'll have to find. I believe one scene had a player saying something like 'here's [North Korean] newspaper headlines I kept on all of our players' – so it's clear that the players (especially the significant ones like Yang) had sigcov. Let me draftify and I'll turn it into something good. BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:19, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify per above. Just realized from this that documentaries can count as sigcov, thanks! May be able to write some articles based on subjects covered in documentaries. seefooddiet (talk) 12:27, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - played at the World Cup, Olympics, and managed the national team?! Clearly notable. Giant Snowman 18:28, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep – Due to the lack of sources, the tendency is for it to be deleted, but in fact this seems to be one of the most relevant players in North Korea. Svartner (talk) 00:16, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Please provide a review of sources, if they don't provide notability, then perhaps draftification is the more realistic closure.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:16, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 00:49, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: There's some coverage on page 18 of this North Korean book [21] and in this book [22]. Is that enough for sigcov? Should be notable as the captain of the squad. Oaktree b (talk) 01:13, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - "Some coverage" is now routine match coverage in a book jam packed with lies from a country with a wholly unreliable media. The other book is just a sentence. Dratify shouldn't be an option as it is unlikely sigcov will emerge in the future. Dougal18 (talk) 08:15, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The film I mentioned above contains significant coverage (as well as a scene that went something like: "Every North Korean from his generation recognizes his face. Every younger North Korean recognizes the name 'Yang Song Guk, hero of the eighth World Cup'"). In addition, there's also another scene with a player showing a book full of newspaper clippings for the players from the Cup – so its clear they were well-covered (and the suggestion that everything from North Korean is wholly unusable is ridiculous – it should be used with caution, yes, but not outright banned). BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:05, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it's biased out the wazoo, but we have confirmation (from the film) it's not made up. It's a source, that's all. Oaktree b (talk) 22:08, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Per users above. Clealry significant figure in North Korean football. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 21:21, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. Strong arguments on both sides, with the Delete views carrying more P&G weight than the more numerous Keep views. However, I wasn't able to see a rough consensus either way. Feel free to renominate in three months. Owen× ☎ 14:03, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Felix Goddard

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Fails WP:GNG, no significant coverage, just stats/routine news. Giant Snowman 19:52, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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It’s got significant coverage from what I can see. Stop pointlessly tagging pages for deletion - becoming quite pathetic now. 2A06:5902:180C:5800:59C9:B142:4513:9C80 (talk) 19:59, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stop editing from your IP, EnglishDude. Giant Snowman 17:48, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep~~. I see at least one example of WP:SIGCOV in a reliable source (Straits Times - ironically it's from the very beginning of his career) and that's enough combined with other coverage for a WP:NSPORT pass. Dclemens1971 (talk) 20:50, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One source is not enough. Giant Snowman 17:48, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is for WP:NSPORT. Dclemens1971 (talk) 17:58, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Incorrect - it says that "an athlete is likely to have received significant coverage in multiple secondary sources" (my emphasis). Giant Snowman 18:06, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources. Meeting this requirement alone does not indicate notability, but it does indicate that there are likely sufficient sources to merit a stand-alone article." Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:54, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"at least one" - and that even doing that "does not indicate notability". Giant Snowman 20:38, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - Not seeing enough coverage. One article from the Strait Times mentioned above is not enough. Simione001 (talk) 00:46, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NSPORT is a little looser than WP:GNG. Unlike with GNG, "Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources." Combine the one article with the extensive non-SIGCOV available, it's a pass on the SNG. Dclemens1971 (talk) 01:36, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Dclemens1971, a WP:NSPORT pass isn't enough for AfD. See Q2 in the FAQ section. -- asilvering (talk) 21:51, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I've missed that question up entirely up to this point. (And Q1 notwithstanding, I don't fully understand why we have SNGs for sports at all if everything ultimately has to come back to GNG.) Delete. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, and I missed your reply. The "why" here (from my perspective, anyway) is a little bit "because team GNG-only haven't so conclusively won the argument that the SNGs are totally deprecated" and a little bit "so you can guess whether a subject is notable or not without having to go look for coverage" (for example, when you're doing NPP or so on). -- asilvering (talk) 05:56, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Sufficiently referenced to pass in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 14:34, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As above, only one source has currently been found with SIGCOV. That is not enough to pass GNG. Sources must be multiple. Have you found any others? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:57, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think there's a disagreement among participating editors here on how to read WP:NSPORT. Dclemens1971 (talk) 16:53, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But the !vote says this passes GNG, which is incorrect. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 17:01, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:06, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: The Lancashire Telegraph articles are a RS. I found this [23] and [24], should be enough for an article, in addition to what's in the article now for sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 23:22, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I reviewed those early on. The Irish Independent is just a long set of quotes from Goddard's manager with no actual reporting; I don't think it counts as independent SIGCOV. The Telegraph article is WP:ROUTINE transfer coverage. Dclemens1971 (talk) 23:38, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
transfer coverage that's about the player, still counts Oaktree b (talk) 03:33, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, standard transfer coverage is definitely classed as WP:ROUTINE. Giant Snowman 17:33, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Agree that the Lancashire Telegraph article is WP:ROUTINE. This is a football player for a professional club. If this player is notable, then all club players are notable. Could well be WP:TOOSOON in that the player could become notable in the future but there is no way to know that. Does not currently meet GNG Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 17:54, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 18:02, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Given the slightly unique nature of the LOI Premier Division, I believe it should meet the notability guidelines set by WikiProject Football with some reasonable flexibility. Excluding University College Dublin (UCD), all the other clubs in the league operate on a fully professional basis. This is a situation where a professional player (Goddard) is making appearances against professional players at professional clubs.

While the guidelines suggest that a player is generally notable if they’ve appeared in a fully professional league (which technically isn’t the case here due to UCD), surely these are guidelines - not strict policies? Shouldn’t we allow some flexibility in cases like this, where the vast majority of the league is professional? We're not disregarding the guidelines but rather applying them in a way that stays true to their purpose—recognising players competing at a professional level.

In addition to above sources, there's Dundalk Democrat coverage, further Irish Independent talking about Goddard's performances, BBC Sport match coverage. In fact, if you dive a bit deeper into Google, there's many more sources that mention Goodard by name in match reports from sufficient sources. Josh (talk) 08:36, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Match coverage is not SIGCOV, it s routine. Playing at professional level is irrelevant, WP:NFOOTBALL has been abolished. All that matters is coverage. Giant Snowman 09:41, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Per users above. Young player with ongoing pro career who already has sources and will get more playing in one of Irelands most high profile clubs. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 21:22, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep - borderline, the Lancashire Telegraph and Dundalk Democrat coverage isn't stellar but across the various articles I do think it adds up to something together with the Straits Times, and the articles do include biographical information of the subject beyond direct quotes or signing details. I don't quite buy the argument that if Goddard is notable then any professional player is notable; I've definitely come across many professional players who have less coverage available (and whose articles do not typically survive AfD). _signed,Rosguill ^talk 13:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was draftify‎. ✗plicit 11:04, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tobiáš Diviš

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I cannot find any evidence of notability for this Slovak men's footballer to meet WP:GNG. He only played 48 matches in lower leagues. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 12:39, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Slovakia. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 12:39, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment: The correct facts are 23 matches in Slovakia's highest league and 30 in the second league. Geschichte (talk) 21:20, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 14:47, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:21, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Draftify or delete?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 12:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify: While they don't seem notable at the moment, they could 100% have coverage around them in the future. Article seems in okay shape, so I'd rather move it to draftspace where it can be worked on rather that a flat-out deletion. Sir MemeGod  17:19, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article is nominated for deletion by the base it fails WP:GNG. References are poorly-formatted too. I don't think Diviš will gain any significant coverage in the future, since the clubs he has played for are certainly not well-known outside Slovakia, but of course we won't make WP:CRYSTALBALL predictions. In its current state, the article is written like a database or directory and does not contain anything about what Diviš accomplished to prove that he deserves a Wikipedia article. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:45, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The clubs don't need to be well-known outside of Slovakia. We only need reliable sources from within Slovakia. Being notable in one location is enough for an entry in the English Wikipedia. How the references are formatted is not a reason for deletion. Geschichte (talk) 07:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify per above. Active first-tier player who has also made his U21 international debut, there is coverage at the moment but not significant enough yet. I am also bewildered by some of the statements by the nominator. Geschichte (talk) 07:43, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 05:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jorge Pan

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There doesn't seem to be significant coverage of the subject in reliable sources. toweli (talk) 08:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to List of Carlton Football Club players. as an ATD. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:41, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fred Barlow

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Fails WP:SPORTSBASIC and WP:SIGCOV. A player who only played in a single game is not notable, and does not have in-depth enough coverage to pass our notability guidelines. 4meter4 (talk) 15:34, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Has not been the subject of significant coverage; not suprising as records show only played one game. As suggested, fails WP:SPORTBASIC. Spinifex&Sand (talk) 22:13, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A redirect to List of Carlton Football Club players is an obvious alternative to deletion. – Teratix ₵ 08:50, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The subject is not covered in the target. TarnishedPath^talk 09:44, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TarnishedPath: ~~You didn't read carefully enough, control+F "Fred Barlow".~~ – Teratix ₵ 01:49, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, that was unnecessarily personal. But he is there, in the 1890s section. – Teratix ₵ 02:57, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies. I did a ctrl-F when I made the last comment and couldn't find it. I must have had a typo in my search term. TarnishedPath^talk 04:24, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Fails WP:NSPORT, couldn't find anything online either. GMH Melbourne (talk) 01:55, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Lacks significant coverage in multiple reliable sources which are independent from the subject. TarnishedPath^talk 09:43, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Procedural close‎. The nominator failed to tag the article or inform the article creator about this discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:28, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hassan El Belghiti

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Delete or Redirect to List of world championships medalists in powerlifting (men). Only has two articles sourced, both by BarBend. Anybody who competes in powerlifting (local or international) can be included to All Powerlifting and Open Powerlifting. ViciousViper47 (talk) 03:54, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 September 15. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 04:06, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Procedural close‎. The nominator failed to tag the article or inform the article creator about this discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:27, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Panagiotis Tarinidis

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Delete or Redirect to List of world championships medalists in powerlifting (men). Only four sourced articles talk about Tarinidis's achievements. Anybody who competes in powerlifting (local or international) can be included to All Powerlifting and Open Powerlifting. I'm skeptical if only four articles are good enough for an article. ViciousViper47 (talk) 03:49, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 September 15. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 04:06, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Draftify‎. Although some editors opposed this option, I'm closing this discussion as a Draftify as an ATD. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:57, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jack Moore (footballer, born 2003)

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PROD removed by article creator, no reason given. No significant coverage, everything is pretty much match reports and stats sites, fails WP:GNG. No spectacular career that would justify keeping. Giant Snowman 20:20, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Once again this page is not "pretty much match reports and stats sites"!

Please check the sources and READ the article as well as sources before making false statements about another one of my pages EnglishDude98 (talk) 21:10, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is made up of one more type of source: primary sources. In general that means sources created by himself, his family, his employer or his association - in this case, all news published by his own club are primary. They can be used, but do not provide notability for a subject. Geschichte (talk) 05:39, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly - where is the significant coverage? The fact that @EnglishDude98: does not understand notability requirements remains concerning. Giant Snowman 06:53, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The article shouldn't have been Prod'ed in the first place, because there are multiple citations in play, all-be-it mostly primary, makes it not an article you can PROD. There are some secondary sources on there, but many people call them routine coverage. @EnglishDude98: I suggest you read through WP:V and try and find those sources which users today would call WP:SIGCOV. Regards. Govvy (talk) 09:30, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Will check later, thanks for the help and advice in this matter @Govvy EnglishDude98 (talk) 09:35, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why does an article having multiple sources mean you can't PROD it? Giant Snowman 14:48, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The difference between complicated and uncomplicated, a page with multiple sources will always be challenged, 90% of admins will reject a prod like that. Prod is for straight forward simple deletions. Govvy (talk) 17:22, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, it is for an uncontroversial deletion, which is not the same thing at all. Giant Snowman 15:41, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 00:19, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Nothing even close to approaching IRS SIGCOV, and there is no point in draftifying something that has no hope of sourcing appearing in the near future. The current page has 15 citations to his club/league (not independent and not secondary), 6 citations to stats pages (not secondary, not SIGCOV), and 4 citations to utterly routine match reports, none of which contain even a sentence on Moore. JoelleJay (talk) 23:45, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per JoelleJay statement. Footballer with a very common birth name, making it difficult to find significant coverage for this one. I don't see this article as a potential draft. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:09, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draft I am going to say draft with the hope that he could come notable, he is only 20 years old, I don't see why it can't be worked on in draft space. Govvy (talk) 19:57, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as there is disagreement on whether or not this article should be draftified.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:21, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify. I don't see a current pass on WP:GNG/WP:NSPORT, but he's an early career player and I see no reason to draftify in the event sources emerge in the near future. Dclemens1971 (talk) 16:30, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. The lack of coverage is the issue. Habst, if you would like this as a Draft to see if you can find coverage I'm happy to provide it. Star Mississippi 14:00, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jamal Abdi Hassan

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Non-notable. Only sources are entries in tables showing the individual participated in the Olympics. Marcus Markup (talk) 19:18, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Unable to find any WP:SIGCOV that could be used to help this subject, one of the many WP:LUGSTUBS overfilling this site still, meet the WP:GNG. Unfortunately, I don't see a clear redirect target. Let'srun (talk) 13:31, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Runner is a multiple-time international gold medallist satisfying WP:NATH and he has been covered in print media under his Arabic name "جمال عبدي حسن". A lot of print media from his era hasn't been digitized, but there are some remnants of prose online i.e. from Al Jazeera. He also had a viral moment falling on the water jump at the '96 Olympics which caused him to not make the finals. I don't have the text yet (working on it), but I know for a fact that infamous fall was covered in a The Times issue (transcribed in a news stream here) so that's another avenue for sourcing. Based on WP:NEXISTS, I think enough breadcrumbs are here to justify keeping the article with some work. --Habst (talk) 17:19, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. WP:NATH is definitely not satisfied in the absence of any IRS SIGCOV sources. The Al Jazeera source above has all of one sentence on him in a list of event results, and categorically does not count towards notability. In the 5000m race, Qatari Jamal Abdi Hassan Abdullah came in seventh with a time of 13.04.65. Moroccans Salah Hissou and Abdel Rahim Al-Ghomri came in eleventh and sixteenth with a time of 13.16.87 and 13.36.08 respectively.
We have zero indication that anything in The Times is non-routine SIGCOV, or even anything beyond a photo caption. JoelleJay (talk) 23:22, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, WP:NATH is definitely not satisfied in the absence of any IRS SIGCOV sources -- can you please provide a policy source that states this? It's definitely not supported by the text of NATH or the WP:NSPORTS2022 consensus on this issue. WP:NEXISTS is a valid policy to cite in this context while we work to comb through print media from the 1990s. --Habst (talk) 13:18, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How many times do people have to explain to you that meeting SPORTCRIT is required for an athlete to meet NSPORT? You can meet a sport-specific sub-criterion via achievement, but you still have to meet NSPORT for any presumptions of coverage to apply. JoelleJay (talk) 20:38, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, I greatly respect your contributions here and hope you can extend the same respect to me. I think that WP:NATH and WP:SPORTCRIT are two separate parts of NSPORT without a clearly defined relationship to each other. Prong 2 of NATH is clearly met here by the subject's multiple international medals in distance running. To say that NATH isn't satisfied despite that simply isn't supported by the policy.

Also, NSPORT is only a guideline along with other more established guidelines such as WP:NEXISTS. If we can determine together that coverage exists of this athlete meeting the bar for notability, a keep vote would be justified. --Habst (talk) 13:27, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I misread "NATH" as a synonym for "NSPORT". But regardless, all sport-specific criteria are subordinate to the overarching requirements at SPORTCRIT. Otherwise SPORTCRIT #5 would make no sense and the robust consensus at NSPORT2022 would be functionally ignored. JoelleJay (talk) 21:18, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, if a consensus is functionally ignored, then that means it's not actually a consensus. I don't think your description of NSPORTS2022 matches the text of the summary, which says, There is a general consensus that the NSPORTS guideline still has broad community support, which includes WP:NATH as a part of NSPORTS. Speaking of subordination, all of NSPORTS is subordinate to broader guidelines like WP:GNG and WP:NEXISTS, so if we can fulfill those, there is no need to fulfill SPORTCRIT.

If we delete this article, my understanding is we would effectively be saying that Abdi Hassan is the only steeplechase Olympian since 1924 to have not met the notability guidelines. I'm not ruling out that it's possible, but it certainly deserves more effort than we have put in so far. For example, prompted by the below comment I looked at the page history and found several alternative names for the subject we can use as leads for name-searching. --Habst (talk) 13:30, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The consensus has been observed in literally thousands of AfDs by this point. Only a very small cohort of editors ignore it or are ignorant of it. Your understanding of PAGs is clearly at odds with the rest of the community's. JoelleJay (talk) 22:05, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, my views are consistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines which I strive to follow. If you have a particular issue, please cite the policy or guideline which you think I misinterpreted and we can discuss it. As I said before, I greatly respect your work and viewpoints here, and I hope that we can converse respectfully without resorting to personal comments. --Habst (talk) 23:57, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are claiming that a recent strong global consensus to require citing a GNG-contributing source in all athlete biographies is invalid because the same discussion didn't find a consensus to deprecate the entirety of NSPORT, and therefore its pre-RfC guidance is still in effect. As if following (your misreading of) one of the sub-outcomes of that RfC moots all of the findings of consensus for change in the same closing statement, all the subsequent consensuses at NSPORT for implementing those changes, and all the thousands of AfDs and major followup RfCs like LUGSTUBS 1 & 2 enforcing those changes.
Stop wasting people's time with this trolling. JoelleJay (talk) 00:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, I'm following my understanding of the consensus. a recent strong global consensus to require citing a GNG-contributing source in all athlete biographies -- that's not what the consensus was, per Special:Diff/1246440039, an athlete biography could still be kept even if it doesn't cite a GNG-contributing source as long as it fulfills broader policies like WP:NEXISTS. This is a direct quote from the person who established SPORTCRIT: SPORTBASIC #5 was never intended, nor should it be misused, to trump or overrule the more general, overarching rule.

I still appreciate your contributions to the encyclopedia which we are both here to build. Your last comment was unnecessary. --Habst (talk) 12:43, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
...You're quoting one of the editors who most vehemently opposed NSPORT2022, repeatedly tried to stifle its implementation, and was cautioned at ANI for enlisting others to ignore SPORTCRIT #5, as if his opinion reflects any kind of consensus. And anyway we have the creator of SPORTCRIT #5 also saying in the same discussion that Such circumstances are very rare, and I've only come across one circumstance in the past two years (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Vehmeier) where I concluded that it was appropriately applied. That is far from the application of NBASIC you have been attempting so you should interpret #5 as overriding it.
If you're going to keep making utterly nonsensical claims about NSPORT I'm going to continue calling them out. JoelleJay (talk) 01:09, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, thanks for this information. Can you please link to the ANI archive where Cbl62 was cautioned to for enlisting others to ignore SPORTCRIT prong 5? I tried searching and couldn't find it. I also searched for your quote ("Such circumstances...") at both WP:Articles for deletion/Esraa Owis and WP:Articles for deletion/John Vehmeier and couldn't find it.

Regardless, when I use WP:NEXISTS I assure you it's based in policy and made in good faith. If you disagree with the sources existing, please make claims to that effect. Broad guidelines like GNG and NEXISTS are not invalidated just because there is some smaller subject-specific guideline on Wikipedia. --Habst (talk) 13:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not Cbl62. I guess "warning" isn't the right term given its more specific meanings here, but certainly cautioned: BeanieFan11 should still be well aware that that warning did enjoy significant support and the consensus may be more clear if this comes up again.
NEXISTS doesn't mean you can just assume coverage exists merely because the subject meets your arbitrary presumptive standards. JoelleJay (talk) 23:32, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're quoting one of the editors who most vehemently opposed NSPORT2022 ... [who] was cautioned at ANI for enlisting others to ignore SPORTCRIT #5 – FWIW, there was no warning given at that ANI, which resulted in no consensus. You also enlisted that argument at the Vehmeier AFD; as an admin said there, There was no consensus to warn anyone at ANI and you should strike the comment as incorrect. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:55, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, I should have used "cautioned". I forget "warning" has a specific meaning here. JoelleJay (talk) 23:33, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I am the son of Jamal Abdi. I keep editing this wiki page because of some information. It has come to my attention that the page is in threat of deletion, I would greatly appreciate it if we don’t decide to delete it. 78.101.160.239 (talk) 09:04, 18 September 2024 (UTC) Copied from talk page. Geschichte (talk) 09:29, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. The provided sources and keep arguments clearly state that the subject meets notability, even with limited media representation. There is a clear consensus against deletion. (non-admin closure) Old-AgedKid (talk) 11:07, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Derrick Adu Kwakye

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Totally AI-generated text that does not match the sources used. Article subject is a non-notable arm wrestler, I can find only brief mentions of the individual; won silver in two categories in arm wrestling at the 2023 African Games. No extended coverage that I can discover and nothing like the content the article suggests, although I am in no way the best-placed to discover Ghanaian sources. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 10:17, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi, Pickersgill-Cunliffe i sincerely appreciate your concern. we are currently running a contest on athletes that has participated in the African Games. This is a major tournament in Africa and a very notable one at that. We understand that these athletes are underrepresented in the media as they tend to focus more on other competitions like AFCON, Olympics among others. Media coverage has always been an issue here in Africa and we are trying in our own capacity not to let their achievements go unnoticed. I know other continents might not be able to relate to this constraint but I'd like to plead with you and other reviewers to resist from tagging subsequent articles for deletion. Thanks for your cooperation. Sunkanmi

Weak keep: Coverage [25], [26], [27], not super extensive, but it confirms the career and wins. Oaktree b (talk) 00:50, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Oaktree b The first piece is directly from SWAG (see byline). The second piece only has a namedrop and part of one sentence on Kwakye: Derrick Adu Kwakye will have it tough as he comes face to face with Haruna Tahiru who dethroned Asoka in the Armwrestling Super match after several years of dominance. I don't see GNG being met here... JoelleJay (talk) 22:59, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: The sources provided by Oaktree b here each provide independent coverage of the subject and help this BLP meet the WP:GNG. Although some editing needs to happen here to improve the WP:NPOV, that is not a reason by itself to delete. Let'srun (talk) 12:34, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Feel free to discuss an article page move now that the AFD is closed. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:43, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Donald MacMillan (rugby union)

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No sources, and seems to have no real notability. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 02:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Known as "Ian" rather than Donald, which may assist your searches. Plenty of coverage on Trove and I've added some of them to the page. Got more results for the typo "Mc"Millan.[28] Jevansen (talk) 23:35, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:57, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Was not aware of this. Jevansen (talk) Jevansen (talk) 07:12, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Per the new sources add, meets NSPORT. GMH Melbourne (talk) 01:09, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was draftify‎. ✗plicit 00:24, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Jong-min (footballer, born 1947)

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 00:04, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete also lack of WP:SIGCOV. Xegma(talk) 17:53, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep - played at the Olympics and managed the national team, clearly notable - needs improving, not deleting. Giant Snowman 20:24, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and Improve per GiantSnowman. Hansen Sebastian (Talk) 18:33, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Reminding participants that WP:GNG has not been addressed.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 00:16, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and improve as per above

Lâm (talk) 18:39, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: as per GiantSnowman. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 ^{[𝚃𝙰𝙻𝙺]} 13:10, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per GiantSnowman has played in the Olympics and managed the national team.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:47, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Relisting. Clear consensus to Keep but it's not clear that sources verify content and establish GNG. This is the second relisting comment on this subject so if they do, please state that rather than give a "per" statement.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:13, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~: I'm failing to see the notability here. The references provided are just profiles and clearly doesn't have any SIGCOV. I'm not convinced of the established notability comment per GiantSnowman. Taking part in Olympics doesn't warranty any notability, if there aren't any sources backing it up. My search results also turned out nil and clearly no SIGCOV or GNG met. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 09:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

After reading through BF11's comment, it's evidence some notability might be present in the North Korean sources. I'm okay with a draftify too. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 17:22, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is clearly one of the examples were requiring strict SIGCOV compliance is patently absurd. Where on earth are we supposed to go to find North Korean newspaper archives? I can only note that in a scene in the film The Game of Their Lives (regarding the 1966 North Korean team), one North Korean player showed a book full of newspaper headlines for the top players with the national team – so it is obvious that the sport was very well-covered at the time and I don't see why a few years later would have been any different. Another way to notability would be WP:ANYBIO if Kim received any of the top honors in North Korea, which would be either Merited Athlete or People's Athlete. Looking up his name (김정민) in relation to the title Merited Athlete (공훈체육인) I get results including a piece from the Minju Choson stating in the preview "화원1동에 입사한 만경대구역상하수도관리소의 김정민，량은향 로동자부부 ... 공훈체육인칭호가 수여되였다． 로력훈장이 1명에게，국기훈장 제2급이 18명 . [Kim Jong-min and Ryang-hyang, workers of the Mangyongdae District Waterworks Management Office in Hwawon 1-dong, were awarded the title of Meritorious Sportsman.]" – I have a strong feeling this was him (esp. given that we have no other North Korean 'Kim Jong-min's) but I receive warning messages when entering the site so I can't look further. Searching his name in relation to the 'Mangyondae District Waterworks Management Office' ("입사한 만경대구역상하수도관리소" "김정민") brings up another piece from the Rodong Sinmun further discussing 'Kim Jong-min and Ryang-hyang' ("화원1동에 입사한 만경대구역상하수도관리소의 김정민, 량은향 로동자부부는 현대적인 살림집을 받아안고보니 우리 원수님의 은덕이 너무도 크고 ... [Kim Jong-min and Ryang-hyang, workers of the Mangyongdae District Waterworks Management Office in Hwawon 1-dong, received a modern house and realized that the grace of our Marshal was so great...]") but likewise I cannot access it further. IMO I'd like to keep this given how accomplished he is and how ridiculous it is to find North Korean newspaper sources. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:55, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify: I agree with BeanieFan11's argument - proving WP:GNG for a North Korean would be extremely difficult. At the same time, the article gives very little information about the subject and needs improving. It makes sense to draftify and find sources to add to it so that it can be more useful to readers.DesiMoore (talk) 16:06, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd support that outcome and would expand it when I get the chance. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:35, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify – Per above. Svartner (talk) 22:23, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:37, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of college football coaches with 100 losses

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Not finding the needed WP:SIGCOV from reliable secondary sources covering this grouping to meet the WP:LISTN. The best I could find is [[29]]. Let'srun (talk) 20:40, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Side comment that the title might be better as something like "List of college football career ~~wins~~ leaders". Unless it's deemed some magic number in sources, cutoff criteria should rarely be in titles. Per WP:LISTNAME:
Many lists are not intended to contain every possible member, but this does not need to be explained in the title itself ... the detailed criteria for inclusion should be described in the lead, and a reasonably concise title should be chosen for the list.
—Bagumba (talk) 04:36, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Bagumba: the list you speak of appears to exist at List of college football career coaching wins leaders. Perhaps this one should be merged/redirected into that one. Left guide (talk) 06:05, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, I meant "List of college football career losses leaders". —Bagumba (talk) 06:42, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do think loss leaders on its own would be a notable list, but, I'd expect all of the significant loss leaders to already be included in the win list. You don't typically lose for a long long time without getting fired, but mildly successful coaches can hand around a while and rack up some stats. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:26, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can also rack up a huge number of losses by being a coach for a long time at a small school that's not really focused on football and that can't really afford a higher caliber coach, so they just keep losing season after season but do nothing about it. 129.7.55.20 (talk) 04:23, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 21:43, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 23:30, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – Statistics sufficiently pertinent to establishes WP:GNG. Needs improvements and more sources, not deletion. Svartner (talk) 21:24, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak ~~delete~~keep. Seems like something that should have more coverage ~~but best I could find to meet WP:GNG was this [30]. Without two more decent sources I can't make an argument for a keep~~. I think newly found [31] and [32] are probably enough for a keep. (Original: Esolo5002 (talk) 00:37, 24 September 2024 (UTC)) Esolo5002 (talk) 01:31, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~. No wide coverage of this grouping, does not appear to meet notability. Drdpw (talk) 03:36, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Meets WP:LISTN as a topic discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources. Sources include 247Sports, ESPN, Chattanooga Times Free Press, The Oklahoman, The Macon Telegraph. This pairs well with List of college football career coaching wins leaders as a complementary encycloppedic topic.—Bagumba (talk) 07:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I don't believe ESPN counts as a fully independent source for sports leagues they have TV contracts with per this comment from an older AfD, so it's likely a WP:COISOURCE, but the other four references presented above seem sufficient for satisfying WP:NLIST. Left guide (talk) 10:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ESPN is one of the most credible sources of sports information in the USA. I do not agree that it's coverage should by discredited on independence grounds. Cbl62 (talk) 22:20, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Cbl62: Yes I fully agree that it's one of the most credible sports journalism outlets as far as fact-checking and accuracy, and it's probably very useful for the article, but I'm just saying it may not always count towards notability due to conflicts of interest in some topics they cover. Left guide (talk) 00:25, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The ESPN article cited by Bagumba is about a now-retired coach who at the time of publication was the head coach at Tennessee Tech. To my knowledge, ESPN has never broadcast a Tennessee Tech game and had no conflict of interest in covering this particular person. So, even assuming arguendo that COI principles could be applied to a TV network, for example, promoting its game of the week, such an argument doesn't apply here. Cbl62 (talk) 00:38, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Baguma but move to List of college football career coaching losses leaders to be consistent with the recently-renamed List of college football career coaching wins leaders. Cbl62 (talk) 22:23, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm willing to withdraw this early if the other delete votes consider the uncovered sourcing to be sufficient. Let'srun (talk) 00:41, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Esolo5002 @Drdpw: Would you have any new thoughts based on the lastest sources indentified? Thanks. —Bagumba (talk) 01:12, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I will join the keep consensus given the new information . Drdpw (talk) 01:38, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ Bagumba I changed my vote. Esolo5002 (talk) 01:31, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Let'srun: Feel free to close. Thanks. —Bagumba (talk) 04:30, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. It doesn't appear that sources provide the SIGCOV that we require to Keep an article in an AFD discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:27, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Bray

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NACTOR because he’s only appeared in one film. The Film Creator (talk) 22:47, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – not at all relevant or useful, low quality article. Alon9393 (talk) 16:29, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Unable to find any WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR is not met here either. Let'srun (talk) 14:07, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’m not going to !vote, but I must add that I saw the solo film he starred in and it’s gloriously bad, a true bomb that is a cult classic. Bearian (talk) 01:29, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - @Let'srun - A very simple Google search shows multiple scans of articles that were written about him. What kind of search were you doing that missed all of those? See: 1, 2 and 3. KatoKungLee (talk) 14:27, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Personally I don't feel like these articles are suitable for meeting the GNG as they are merely either very short profiles lacking WP:SIGCOV or puff pieces talking about his hobbies rather than his career. Let'srun (talk) 23:51, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 23:04, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: can only fail WP:NACTOR as he played in only one film. But meets the general requirements for notability, see article and sources mentioned during the course of this discussion. Thank you. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 19:59, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which sources do you feel meet the GNG? Let'srun (talk) 01:04, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: I'm doubtful that the sources presented above qualify as reliable independent secondary coverage. They mostly read like advertorials or native advertising of some sort. For example, the very end of the source with by far the most coverage says
Do you fit the bill? Maybe you can be the girl who changes Jim's isolationist life style? If you think so, maybe it would help to write Jim and tell him how you feel! We know he would love to hear from you! You can write to him at this address:
Jim Bray
c/o Compass International Pictures
9229 Sunset Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA. 90069
We can't just indiscriminately throw links at an AfD and call it a day. Left guide (talk) 08:48, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to 2015 World Series of Poker. The sole Keep !vote is an OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Owen× ☎ 21:56, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Joshua Beckley

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to 2015 World Series of Poker: Subject only has notable coverage due to WP:1E, and without any additional RS covering him this should be redirected as a WP:ATD. Let'srun (talk) 21:11, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Other second-place finishers in the Main Event has qualified as notable (see f.e Steven Jones) and Beckley is atleast as notable as them. PsychoticIncall (talk) 08:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 15:26, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kristian P. Lusardi

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:SPORTCRIT or WP:CRIMINAL. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:00, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Move~~ to Christian Lusardi and leave a redirect. More sources available when you search for his "other" name - Christian Lusardi. PsychoticIncall (talk) 11:54, 15 September 2024 (UTC) (I'm striking your duplicate vote as I assume the most recent one is your current opinion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:35, 17 September 2024 (UTC))[reply]

PsychoticIncall, "Move" is not a possible AFD closure as it is an editing decision. If you are interested in that outcome, you have to vote to "Keep" and then have a Move discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:29, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Plenty of sources at his "other" name. PsychoticIncall (talk) 11:36, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. The sources that use the name Christian Lusardi are already in the article, and there is nothing notable about them. A red-linked "scandal" during a red-linked tournament where a "semi-amateur poker player" committed a minor crime and received a minor sentence. Highly questionable to include this WP:BLP in an encyclopedia. Geschichte (talk) 05:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I agree with Geschichte; there is nothing notable about the subject, and it fails to meet WP:CRIMINAL and WP:SPORTCRIT. GrabUp - Talk 14:31, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. Star Mississippi 13:19, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Ruane (poker player)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:02, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Succeeds WP:BLP1E and quite possibly also WP:SPORTCRIT with two major cashes let alone being at the final table of the Main Event (the world's biggest poker tournament). PsychoticIncall (talk) 11:29, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:07, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. These two sources provide plenty of sigcov. Additionally, the advice at WikiProject Poker suggests that poker players who win more than a million dollars in a single event at an established tournament are "generally notable". These sources from the article show that he won over $2.5 million in the 2016 WSOP $10,000 No Limit Hold'em Main Event. I believe this is enough to establish that Ruane is notable. P.S. I've copyedited the page, in case the extra spaces were bothering anyone. Toadspike [Talk] 09:15, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This source from the dewiki article might also qualify as sigcov. Though much of the content is similar to the other two long sources, at first glance it isn't a straight copy/paste or summary of them. Toadspike [Talk] 09:32, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎ as no ATD has been identified Star Mississippi 22:02, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Moon Kim (poker player)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:10, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Not relevant at the moment. Alon9393 (talk) 20:58, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The winner of one of the most prestigious poker tournaments on the WPT tour. PsychoticIncall (talk) 12:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete does not provide enough independent, verifiable sources that demonstrate his long-term notability in the poker community --Moarnighar (talk) 10:55, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Is there an appropriate target article this one could be Redirected to? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:28, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Liz I'm not seeing any possible ATD. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:00, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. RL0919 (talk) 14:03, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Evelina Bertoli

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 08:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: I added several citations to the stub-article, and some content. There are dozens more articles at OAsport (it) over several years. I think she medalled 2nd in a 2020 championship [33], and another. On quick look, it seems she was the highest ranking rider for the Italy eventing team at Paris 2024, and you don't get to the Olympics unless you already have a good competition record. I'll take a closer look later when I have more time. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 15:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Dealing with Italian-only articles has been difficult, but I was able to find out some more information which I added to the article. From what I was able to find and understand, I would say that Bertoli likely meets notability standards regardless of my amateur attempts at rummaging through Italian articles. Still probably rated as a stub-level article, it is much improved over the version that was AfD'd. [34] ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 06:15, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: The new changes pushes it past GNG. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 13:21, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 16:47, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Esraa Owis

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, many sources exist under her Arabic name "اسراء عويس". Multiple-time major international championship gold medallist so clearly meets WP:NATH. I added the first two to the article. --Habst (talk) 13:22, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Note that it could be difficult to find sources in English language media. She may be notable as an Arab woman athlete winning medals in African championships and qualifying for the Summer Olympics. Nnev66 (talk) 15:59, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, has sources and the nomination does not indicate that any effort was put behind it. I.e. effort might have been put behind it, but it isn't shown. Geschichte (talk) 16:19, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. A search in Arabic on Arabic news sites only returned routine, trivial event announcements (e.g. 0–3-sentence lightly-refactored boilerplate text announcing results 1 2 3 4 5 6). Nothing approaching the in-depth secondary independent commentary required to be cited in all sportsperson articles. There is explicitly no carve-out for athletes that allows us to assume IRS SIGCOV exists when no such sources have been identified. The whole point of SPORTCRIT #5 is to ensure that athlete bios are not based on achievements or participation, as those criteria were deprecated by global consensus. JoelleJay (talk) 03:42, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, thanks for doing the research and finding those sources. I think that if we combine the paragraphs to establish notability (which is allowed per WP:NBASIC), we have a good case to be made here. The consensus you're referring to established by WP:NSPORTS2022 actually supports keeping this article, because it says to keep sports notability criteria as long as it's not participation based (i.e. simply attending a meet). But in Owis' case, she has won multiple major international medals which goes beyond simply participating. I think you are conflating achievements with participation. --Habst (talk) 17:52, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
NSPORTS2022 established global consensus that, regardless of achievements and regardless of meeting a sport-specific guideline, all athletes must cite a source with IRS SIGCOV. Trivial and routine coverage does not establish notability, and that is the extent of what can be found on this athlete. JoelleJay (talk) 18:27, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, thanks, the NSPORTS2022 closure actually does not say anything about IRS, and it in fact says, There is a general consensus that the NSPORTS guideline still has broad community support. At the time that statement was made, this is what NSPORTS looked like: Special:Diff/1076787937.

Regardless, if we combine the found articles from multiple independent organizations (not just the Koora sources) we can certainly say the coverage is significant in this case fulfilling WP:SPORTCRIT prong #5. Coverage about a hometown athlete qualifying for the Olympics is not routine -- there are strict qualifying standards and there is no guarantee or schedule of such an event occurring. --Habst (talk) 13:05, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That sentence is in the context of deprecating NSPORT entirely, it is obviously not stating that NSPORT as it was is supported in toto. SPORTCRIT #5 requires a source providing significant coverage, it does not say "a combination of sources adding up to SIGCOV". And I've literally never seen anyone attempt the argument that this clause doesn't require the SIGCOV to be IRS.
Coverage of people in non-routine events can absolutely still be routine. NOTNEWS does not limit this in any way. What has been found so far is not even personalized "hometown coverage", it's churnalized results announcements with no more than three boilerplate sentences apiece originating from the same news source. That is not GNG and is not even an indication of GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 20:35, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, yes the sentence argues for the opposite of deprecating NSPORT -- it says to keep it in place, which it currently is. SPORTCRIT prong 5 could certainly be filled by combining sources as NBASIC allows for, however it's important to note that has no bearing on whether or not WP:NATH is fulfilled (which it clearly is in this case via criterion 2, multiple gold medals at major competitions).

Using a search for "اسراء عويس", I see four different news stories on just the first page of Google results (Paris Olympics - Israa Owais finishes her competitions in the qualifiers, Who is Israa Awis? | Profile, The Pharaohs in Paris.. Israa Owais bids farewell to the Olympic Games competitions, Israa Owais, the track and field athlete, officially qualifies for the Olympics). If you consider all of these "churnalism", then surely the series of at least three in-person interview clips conducted by ONTime Sports ([35] [36] [37]) would count as sufficiently journalistic sources? One of them looks to be a 26-minute news segment all about the subject.

There are more on page 2: Egypt's champion Israa Owais, Israa Owais wins gold in triathlon in athletics at the..., After 3 successful attempts, jumper Israa Awis fails in..., Israa Owais wins gold in long jump at Arab Games, “A golden heroine”... Israa Owais, the owner of historical achievements in, Israa Owais wins gold in triathlon at Arab Games, Israa Awis, Israa Owais after saying goodbye to the Olympics: Enough negative talk, it's making me nervous, Israa Owais ranks 15th in the long jump competition, Sports News: Israa Owais bids farewell to the Games in.... These are all from different sources.

There's also a 30-minute TV interview with her here from Al Ahly TV: Full interview | Israa Owais.. Al-Ahly player and Egypt national team star

This is all just in the first 2 pages of results. I really don't think there's a question that the notability guideline is met, it's just that the sources are mostly in Arabic so we'll need to translate them for inclusion in the article. Honestly, I have yet to find a recent Olympian in athletics who doesn't meet the bar with some digging; the Olympics still have significant cultural purchase and athletics is the marquee sport so typically if someone qualifies, the coverage is there. --Habst (talk) 20:21, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
SPORTCRIT prong 5 could certainly be filled by combining sources as NBASIC allows for This is absolutely not true. There is no logical reading of at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage that supports your claim that multiple non-SIGCOV sources can constitute "a source providing SIGCOV". The community !voted to override NBASIC in the case of sportspeople in an RfC that was much more recent and global; that takes precedence.
You are refbombing more routine trivial announcementsd. No number of functionally identical three-sentence results updates can amount to SIGCOV. 1: Israa Awis ended her competitions in the high jump qualifiers without qualifying for the final stage. Israa Owais is participating in the Olympics for the first time in her career. Israa Awis achieved a record of 6.20 metres after three successful attempts. This is on a site with no evidence of editorial control, attributed to someone with only two articles total, and identical to pieces on other sites that each also claim a byline. 2: This is a trash webscraper/UGS. 3: Israa Owais, the national team player and strongman, bid farewell to the long jump competitions, within the Olympic Games competitions hosted by Paris. Israa managed to jump to a height of 6.20 meters, coming in fifteenth place in the first group. Essentially the same announcement as 1. 4: This is the same 3-sentence article I linked earlier. 5: This is literally just a picture of her on a government website (not independent, not SIGCOV).
In-person interviews are primary and non-independent. Per policy: The University of Nevada, Reno Libraries define primary sources as providing "an inside view of a particular event". They offer as examples: original documents, such as autobiographies, diaries, e-mail, interviews,
Al Ahly TV is her own sports organization, so that interview obviously fails as primary and non-independent in multiple ways.
If this is the extent of the coverage you're finding on her, then we are severely lacking in anything approaching SPORTCRIT. JoelleJay (talk) 22:19, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, thanks for your response.

Re: paragraph 1, The community !voted to override NBASIC in the case of sportspeople -- Can you please link to the not-vote where this happened? From my read this isn't what happened in NSPORTS2022. Reading WP:NSPORTS2022, NBASIC is only mentioned once and it's not in the context of overriding it. They are separate policies and broad over-arching guidelines like WP:GNG and WP:NBASIC still apply even where more subject-specific guidelines exist.

Re: WP:REFBOMBing -- As an English speaker, I simply can't read all of the sources I am finding in Arabic, so I pasted the plausible ones here so that someone who does speak Arabic can look them over. Also, WP:REFBOMB only refers to putting unnecessary citations in an article. There's nothing wrong with linking many sources in an AfD discussion. In fact, I think they should all be addressed -- I see you left comments on five of the sources, but there are still 13 on just the first two pages of results that need to be looked at.

Re: In-person interviews are primary and non-independent -- This simply isn't supported by Wikipedia policy. I recently had a discussion about an unrelated article with an admin just this week about this, and this is what they said this week at Special:Diff/1245933378:

I think what will help with precedent is getting the interview issue settled. It has come up more and more often and I think it's unsettled. My personal (editor, not admin) POV is that if X media outlet chooses to interview someone, there's something there.

The quote that you're citing and have cited in past discussions is not directly from any Wikipedia policy, but is from a sub-bullet of a footnote of a section of WP:PRIMARY. The word "interview" is in fact never mentioned in the Wikipedia-voice text on that page other than to say that interviews depend on context. So, taking context into consideration, what can we say about the 26-minute ONTime Sports news segment (plus various clips) and the 30-minute Al Ahly TV news segment, both of which seem to be solely about Owis?

Quoting the admin comment on this issue, Is Ojala (or anyone in comparable position) being interviewed as a matter of post match interviews, or is it more substantive? We would expect post-match interviews to be only five or six minutes and only focusing on the game -- instead, these interviews are much longer and were conducted in what seems to be an in-studio news segment setting. I want to emphasize clearly that we need the assistance of an Arabic speaker to say much more, but it seems like a lot exists here for Arabic speakers.

I think the pieces for meeting SPORTCRIT and GNG have been presented. Can you explain why all 15 sources are "severely lacking"? --Habst (talk) 12:57, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You found one closer who holds the idiosyncratic opinion that interviews can somehow count towards GNG based on "the fact that they chose to interview them" rather than anything about the interview content being IRS SIGCOV. But you can't just claim that their close reflects any sort of consensus or even suggests broader disagreement while simultaneously ignoring the far more prevalent examples of closes supporting the view that only the secondary, independent material in an interview may count toward GNG. How could content that someone says about themselves ever be secondary and independent, anyway? And I know you're aware of these examples since I've linked them to you in the past, so why are you only now accepting admin AfD judgments as evidence of consensus? 1: The result was delete. Interviews are primary sources so the delete argument is the policy based one. 2: admin nom statement This article on a tattoo artist is sourced mainly from interviews. Being primary sources, they don't help us establish his notability. 3: admin nom: There are interviews, and a number of performance listings but nothing independent, or significant enough. 4: The result was delete. I am more persuaded by the delete arguments around the necessity of independent sourcing for a BLP then keep arguments that articles that are basically interviews are independent. 5: The "keeps" are largely based on the slew of references provided early on in the discussion; however, nobody arguing to keep has presented evidence here as to how these sources constitute WP:SIGCOV. The argument that interviews are admissible is an oversimplification; interviews may count toward GNG when they have intellectually independent content; that has not been demonstrated here. 6: admin nom: referenced entirely to WP:PRIMARYSOURCES and Q&A interviews that cannot support notability with no evidence of reliable source coverage shown at all.
The WP:OR treatment of interviews is still policy. Just because specific examples of primary sources are listed in the footnotes does not mean they "aren't policy".
It is absolutely acceptable to characterize someone's behavior at AfD as "refbombing". It is breathtakingly entitled for you to dump a bunch of sources that you haven't even read and insist that other editors must prove each of them to be insufficient. JoelleJay (talk) 21:32, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, thanks for finding these links.

I was actually having an unrelated discussion with the administrator when they opined on interviews unprompted -- I wasn't looking to find a point of view one way or the other and I'm trying to enter discussions with an open mind. It seems intuitive to me that if a reputable news organization conducts a long-form interview, that speaks to the notability of the subject, and I haven't been able to find any Wikipedia policy contradicting that practice here.

I am still curious about the justification for discounting interviews. The only mention you cited earlier, in WP:PRIMARY, doesn't mention interviews in the policy text, and the only mention in a footnote says, other opinion pieces, including (depending on context) reviews and interviews as examples of what could be a primary source. Surely a lengthy news segment interview on a subject would fall under "depending on context" and could be used to establish notability? Also, the way the footnote is written, it makes it seem like only opinion-piece interviews are discussed and not news interviews.

Looking at the links, 1) doesn't contain any news interviews, 2) only comments that the particular interviews used were primary and does not make a sweeping claim about all interviews, 3) doesn't seem to contain any news interviews but instead promotional interviews for his books (?), 4) makes no comment about interviews in general, 5) actually says interviews may count toward GNG when they have intellectually independent content which I think should be met in this case, and 6) only speaks to specific "Q&A interviews" but not news interviews nor interviews in general.

Re: Refbombing, I don't think it's productive to say that other editors are providing too many citations in AfD discussions where the point of the discussion is to evaluate sources. I plan on making a best effort at translation, but the reason why I linked and will continue to link sources in AfDs without being excessive is to see what the community thinks about them even if neither of us can read Arabic natively. I greatly respect your encyclopedic contributions and hope you can extend the same respect to me and can refrain from making personal comments.

Acknowledging that "interviews may count towards GNG" if conditions are met, can we discuss the substance of the news interviews found so far, or if not them, then the other undiscussed sources linked? --Habst (talk) 14:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The "wikipedia [guideline] contradicting this practice" is the one that requires the coverage to be substantial, independent, and secondary. An org's choice to interview someone is not any of that.
Seriously, what can you possibly consider independent and secondary in any of those interviews? The subject speaking about herself is, by definition, non-independent and primary, thus it is absolutely ineligible for GNG consideration.
You think bombarding editors with a bunch of links you haven't even read and demanding they prove that each one of them fails GNG is acceptable behavior?? JoelleJay (talk) 01:19, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, yes, I do think that interviews can be substantial and secondary depending on how they are conducted, particularly if they are conducted as part of news segments as appears to be the case here.

Because neither of us knows Arabic, I'm not sure we can say for sure that about the content of the interviews. Maybe we should discuss the interview issues not pertaining to this specific case in a separate venue to not clutter this discussion? Either way, I think we should temper the language and behavioral accusations and focus on the article. With respect, --Habst (talk) 17:46, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Live interviews are 100% primary. JoelleJay (talk) 23:41, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I just don't think Wikipedia policy ever says this as a blanket statement, for example the comments by the interviewer about the subject would certainly not be primary. Most interviews then would not fall under that bucket. --Habst (talk) 14:32, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No comment on this specific case, but in response to your claim: [That notability can be established through NBASIC for sportspeople] is absolutely not true ... The community !voted to override NBASIC in the case of sportspeople in an RfC that was much more recent and global; that takes precedence. – No, the community absolutely did not !vote to override the notability guideline for people, as said by the user who established SPORTCRIT in the first place: this provision was intended to aid us in expunging the plethora of sub-stubs sourced to databases and lacking any significant coverage that would allow us to write a well-rounded biography ... SPORTBASIC #5 was never intended, nor should it be misused, to trump or overrule the more general, overarching rule. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:41, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just for everyone else's clarity, right after your quoted sentences Cbl62 noted that he has only seen one instance in two years where NBASIC was sufficient in the absence of a SPORTCRIT #5 source. That is hardly an endorsement of using scattered three-sentence announcements for NBASIC. JoelleJay (talk) 23:39, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not necessarily saying that this article passes NBASIC. I'm saying that the statement of the community !vot[ing] to override NBASIC in the case of sportspeople is incorrect. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:01, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 13:09, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: The sources added by Habst appear to be good enough (via reading a rough translation) for meeting the WP:GNG and WP:BASIC. Let'srun (talk) 13:09, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Let'srun, the first link has three brief sentences announcing her event results. That is routine news coverage on its own, but it's also clearly lacking in any secondary analysis as the specifics are just substituted into the boilerplate announcements put out by Kooora and Kas News for every athlete at every competition. You can look at the links I provided to see the identical formatting, and also compare to the contemporaneous announcements put out for others in her cohort. They are pure fluff.
Kooora:
Israa Owais, the Egyptian track and field player, won the gold medal in the long jump competition at the Arab Games held in Algeria. Israa Owais succeeded in winning the gold medal after achieving a distance of 6.54 meters in the competitions held on Tuesday evening in the Algerian city of Oran.
Kooora:
Mostafa Amr, a player in the Egyptian track and field team, won the gold medal in the shot put competition at the Arab Games held in Algeria from July 5 to 15. Amr succeeded in winning the gold medal at the Arab Games after achieving a distance of 20.52 meters in the competitions held today in the city of Oran, Algeria.
Run-of-the-mill sports announcements are not enough to demonstrate notability, and athletes are required to have a source of IRS SIGCOV cited in the article. A 3-sentence blurb that contains nothing beyond the results of an event is certainly not enough to meet SPORTSCRIT. The second piece is by the same news agency as the first (the Kooora piece is functionally identical to a Kas News piece) and so these definitely don't even constitute "multiple" sources of coverage.
Kas News:
Israa Owais, a player in the Egyptian track and field team, won the gold medal in the long jump competition at the Arab Games currently being held in Algeria. Israa Awis succeeded in winning the gold medal in the Arab Games after achieving a distance of 6.54 meters in the competitions held today in the city of Oran, Algeria.
Per policy: For example, routine news coverage of announcements, events, sports, or celebrities, while sometimes useful, is not by itself a sufficient basis for inclusion of the subject of that coverage
Per WP:N: It is common for multiple newspapers or journals to publish the same story, sometimes with minor alterations or different headlines, but one story does not constitute multiple works. Several journals simultaneously publishing different articles does not always constitute multiple works, especially when the authors are relying on the same sources, and merely restating the same information. Similarly, a series of publications by the same author or in the same periodical is normally counted as one source. JoelleJay (talk) 19:44, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Have none of the keep !voters actually read any of the proposed sources...? JoelleJay (talk) 21:45, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 18:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as easily meets WP:BASIC and WP:NATH and WP:HEY. Winner of multiple medals at major international competitions, including 2 gold medals (both long jump and triple jump) at the 2023 Arab Games; silver medal at the 2022 Mediterranean Games; bronze medal at the 2022 African Championships in Athletics. Many pieces of secondary coverage focused on Esraa Owis and her accomplishments identified by Habst above, a few of which have been added to the article, which has been expanded. For English speakers, have also added the 2022 article in The National, which discusses how she overcame an ankle injury that nearly ruined her career to become the first woman representing Egypt to win a silver medal in the long jump in the Mediterranean Games. Cielquiparle (talk) 03:19, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - it would be a bit ridiculous if an athlete winning gold medals at a major event wasn't notable. For me, the interview thing has always been a slightly silly argument. If a major news publication has interviewed a subject, that indicates they think the subject is notable and worth interviewing. Unless there is evidence that it is just PR and fill, there has been an editorial decision to interview this person rather than all the other possible people they could feature. JMWt (talk) 08:38, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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