User talk:Vegan416/DiscussionPage

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Response to Nishidani

Response to this Talk:Zionism#Use of term 'colonization' in opening sentence / definition

Nishidani, I never said that the Arabs should be expelled. First of all, I didn't say that I subscribe to the idea the Zionism is decolonization. In fact I don't subscribe to it, because I am not a woke who views the entire world through the lens of colonization/decolonization. I just said that this is one of the many things that some Zionists said about Zionism. And I said it partly in a tongue in cheek manner, because someone else had actually said it in the talk page of Zionism today. Second, even among those Zionists who subscribe to this idea, "decolonization" doesn't necessarily mean expulsion of anyone. It could mean just liberating a place (or part of it) from the political rule of others. But the fact that you think that the meaning of "decolonization" is necessarily "expelling" is interesting. It means that either you are against decolonization in general or in favor (or indifferent) to the expulsion of people. Which of these options is true? Vegan416 (talk) 21:00, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry but this is terrible argumentation.

Also please try to be concise and to the point on talk pages, avoiding statements like the one you described as: "I just said that this is one of the many things that some Zionists said about Zionism. And I said it partly in a tongue in cheek manner."

- IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 21:19, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

What is terrible argumentation? I just stated the fact that Nishidani's claim that I think the Arabs should be expelled is false, because I don't think so. It is obvious that I know what are my opinions better than anyone else... Vegan416 (talk) 05:12, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Discussion with Nishidani regarding the Colonial interpretation of Zionism

@Nishidani Regarding your ad-hominem attack on Benny Morris as "the son of a Belfast immigrant who, in a book review of the Palestinian historian, Rashid Khalidi, discredits a scion of the Khalidi family with its millenial roots in Palestine":

I would just like to comment that Morris was born in Israel whereas Khalidi was born in the USA to a father that emigrated from Palestine years before 1948 and a Lebanese mother. Also when you speak the roots of Khalidi family in Palestine you refer to the colonial Arab conqueror Khalid ibn al-Walid who participated in the Arab-Muslim colonial conquest of Palestine in the 7th century, and some of his descendants became settler-colonialists there? Vegan416 (talk) 09:44, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Enjoy the discussion. I won't be there.Nishidani (talk) 15:53, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

LOL. The truth about Khalidi triggered you? Vegan416 (talk) 16:45, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

No. YOur remark was so thoughtlessly misleading that I presumed you don't know what I was talking about (the history of the Khalidi family, of which several were in diaspora). Really, this kind of exchange is pointless, because it would look like a sandpit game in a kindergarten.Nishidani (talk) 16:52, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

There was nothing misleading in my comment. It is perfectly accurate. Vegan416 (talk) 17:00, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

If you're happy how you (mis)read my prose, I won't object. Since you know the Khalidis so well, tell me where and how did his grandparents lose their home.Nishidani (talk) 19:13, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Please enlighten me. But with reliable sources. Not one of your unverified stories again. Anyway I have to go now. Probably will be able to respond only next week. Vegan416 (talk) 19:29, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

So, you don't know much about the Khalidis, just as you can't recognize where my anecdote about amicable numbers comes from (a key IP source). Wikipedia articles don't cover most of the subject. That's why the conversation ends here.Nishidani (talk) 20:04, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Response to Levivich

1. To me the sentence "And, for the avoidance of any doubt, I do wish for the end of Zionism and the dismantling of Israel's colonial settler society" sounds like @RolandR says that the entire Israeli society is settler colonial and should be dismantled. After all the claim of anti-Zionists (of the "anti-colonialist" type) is that all of Israel, and not that the settlements in the West Bank, is a settler-colonial entity. But we can wait for RolandR to clarify himself...
2. When you say that "here is more to Israel than settler colonialism" you are starting to sound like a Zionist yourself, but then you follow it with mentioning "other Jewish homeland". What other Jewish homeland? There is no other Jewish homeland. The land of Israel is where the Jewish nation was born more than 2000 years ago, and the only place where it ever had a state of its own. And definitely there is no other habitable part of the world in which Jews could immigrate to establish a country of their own, without being again called "colonialists" by people like you. So you suggest to build another "Jewish homeland" in the sea or in Antarctica?
3. And still above all you simply refuse to say the simple words "I don't wish for the end of Zionism". Why is that?

Vegan416 (talk) 16:10, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

@Levivich The fact that you prefer to answer in the AE page rather in here rather puts to lie your claim that you find this discussion to be a distraction from your complaint there. Also you should realize that your continuing refusal to simply say "I don't wish the end of Zionism" rather vindicates my initial suspicion that you actually are wishing for the end of Zionism. Vegan416 (talk) 16:44, 23 July 2024 (UTC)