Talk:List of current viceregal representatives of the Crown

Purpose

I don't get what the purpose of this page is. These aren't Commonwealth Heads of Government, so CHOGM is irrelevant. We already have the article Governor-General for a list of Governors General. Bastin 10:45, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

It is to act solely a list page, the Governor-General page does not have a list of the people listed here at all, and it's focus is on explanation of the role. It does not have a clear list of individuals on it at all. You are right, however, CHOGM is not relevant here, my mistake with that. Outback the koala (talk) 04:54, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

So... what on Earth connects these people? The Presidents are most certainly not 'Representatives of the Queen'. In fact, the monarch is not represented in Commonwealth republics at all, as High Commissioners represent governments, not the Crown. Bastin 12:15, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Scope of the article

A couple of statements have been tagged as needing citations. One is saying these people are not Heads of State - I think it would be better if we just omit that bit entirely. The other one is more significant. Do Canadian Lieutenant Governors represent the Queen directly? If not, they would be in the same category as Australian Administrators, and we would need to decide whether to include them both, or exclude them. StAnselm (talk) 03:10, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

And since Lieutenant Governors serve "during the pleasure of the Governor General,"[1] it would seem that they should not be included. StAnselm (talk) 03:13, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

While Governors of the Australian states#Federation explains that the situation with Australian governors is the opposite. StAnselm (talk) 03:18, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

That was the case until Maritime Bank v. Receiver-General of New Brunswick (1882), when it was decided that they represent the Crown directly, as stated in the article on Lieutenant Governors that you linked. Bastin 22:35, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Diamond Jubilee of Queen Elizabeth II which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 13:02, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Change to Charles III or keep as Elizabeth II?

With the death of Elizabeth II, I think a direction for this page needs to be chosen:

Should it be towards the current representatives of the now King? The last representatives of Queen Elizabeth (as is currently the case)? Or all of her representatives during her reign?

Whichever way is agreed on, I think the page will need to be amended to reflect the intended subject 151.210.166.23 (talk) 02:42, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

See below—requested move discussion. Compusolus (talk) 05:02, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 12 September 2022

{{requested move/dated|List of current viceregal representatives of Charles III}

List of viceregal representatives of Elizabeth II → List of current viceregal representatives of the British monarch – This is not a list of all the viceregal representatives of Elizabeth II throughout her entire reign, and is rather a list of current viceregal representatives of the current British monarch. Compusolus (talk) 04:27, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

• Comment: I think the article should list all viceregal representatives who served during her reign, just like list of prime ministers of Elizabeth II. The King's representatives should be listed in a separate article. Peter Ormond 💬 11:15, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

If the consensus turns out to be otherwise, then I would support List of viceregal representatives of The Crown. Peter Ormond 💬 23:35, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

If this is the approach most people end up wanting to take, I think the specific names of the most recent office holders should be removed from the tables. So the page will just list e.g. Governor-General of [insert place here], etc. People could then find the specific office holders by clicking through to the linked list pages.151.210.166.23 (talk) 00:39, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

It could also then include mentions of representatives she had earlier during her reign, e.g. governors-general of Ceylon, Nigeria, etc.151.210.166.23 (talk) 00:53, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

@Peter Ormond This isn't a list of all viceregal representatives who served during her reign, nor was it intended to be; lists of those are available through the 'List' link next to each position listed in the article. Compusolus (talk) 23:29, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

• • I think this article was never intended to list all of them. It would include every governors-general/governors/lieutenant governor/administrators/commissioners etc during 1952 to 2022 which would be a huge list.--Mike Rohsopht (talk) 12:09, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

  I must agree with Peter. A individual one should be made for Charles. AviationEnzo (talk) 12:58, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

• There is no point in having two separate articles, so this article should cover both reigns, so "List of viceregal reresentatives of the British monarch" (or similar).---Speminallium (talk) 11:18, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
• Seems a poorly and vaguely scoped article in the first place. Governors-general aren't really viceroys, and that's absolutely not the common names for them. And it's not clear if the intention is for this to be a historical list (in which case it has the wrong contents), or a "current govs" one (in which case it has the wrong title). Simplest fix would be a move to a List of current Governors-General of the Commonwealth realms "and make good". 109.255.211.6 (talk) 19:01, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
• Perhaps it would be more better to move this article to List of viceregal representatives of the British monarch, as per @[[User:Speminallium|Speminallium]'s suggestion above. Compusolus (talk) 23:29, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
• List of viceregal representatives of Charles III or List of viceregal representatives of the British monarch. GoodDay (talk) 00:08, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

My only concern for changing to something like "British monarch" or "the Crown" is that they greatly expand the scope of the article back in time. Unless "current viceregal representatives" is specified.151.210.166.23 (talk) 00:39, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Hence my suggestion to that effect ("current" and "Commonwealth realms", as well as avoiding 'viceregal representatives' as inaccurate and not the WP:COMMONNAME). Arguably if we get rid of "list" the "current" part is more naturally implied, so we might simply have Governors-General of the Commonwealth realms, or some variation on that. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 02:04, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

As noted in the article they aren't all called Governors-General though. There are also: Governors, Lieutenant Governors, Queen's/King's Representatives, Administrators, and Commissioners. But as long as people could agree on an appropriate term, I could support this sort of approach.151.210.166.23 (talk) 02:33, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Right, the scoping issue was part of what I suggesting we should "make good". The laundry-list is rather more extensive than I'd realized, I must admit! Do we have appropriate sources that these are indeed all considered "viceregal representatives"? We don't have an article on that topic, and the viceroy article really only touches on it in passing, and only mentions the governors-general in its discussion of its {{main}} link to here. Some of the articles on the individual positions don't use the term either. If this is the list we really want, and that term is accurate and the best available one, then fair enough. The scope in time issue we should make clear in the lead section, if any new title appears to potentially expand it; but it's not like we listed all the reps of QE2 either, despite the article title potentially bearing that interpretation. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 03:47, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes, agreed—List of current viceregal representatives of the British monarch would be a more suitable title. Compusolus (talk) 10:08, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

If there is an issue with the term "viceregal representatives", why not just use "representatives"? Looking at the websites for the gg of Canada, Australia & NZ, they use the term King's/Queen's representative, and I notice the Template:Representatives of the monarch in Commonwealth realms and Dominions uses this phrasing.151.210.166.23 (talk) 10:39, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

That could work. Nor am I doggedly opposed to "viceregal" reps, just so we can source and gloss it properly. But if simply "representative" is the more common terms, I'd be include to go with that. (I guess you might also argue that "viceroy of the monarch" is also kinda redundant.) 109.255.211.6 (talk) 15:26, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Should be List of viceregal representatives of Charles III, and updated whenever the monarch changes. The monarch operates in a seperate capacity for each realm. thorpewilliam (talk) 11:39, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose: Monarch in question is not just the British monarch, but monarch of many countries. --Spekkios (talk) 23:15, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

@Spekkios Would you support List of viceregal representatives of Charles III? Compusolus (talk) 23:37, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that seems to be the most appropriate title for this article in it's current state, in my opinion.--Spekkios (talk) 02:13, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

@Spekkios What about adding 'current', so 'List of current viceregal representatives of Charles III'? Compusolus (talk) 03:16, 19 September 2022 (UTC)