Talk:2022 Kherson counteroffensive

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 01:10, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Scope vs Southern Ukraine offensive

Please add proposals and arguments for/against at Talk:Southern Ukraine offensive#Scope vs 2022 Ukraine summer counteroffensive for clarifying the relative scope of these two articles. Boud (talk) 13:49, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

This article really shouldn't exist, seems like a crystal ball --LeVivsky (ಠ_ಠ) 17:31, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

You're not a crystal ball. Have you not seen anything? Dawsongfg (talk) 01:40, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Troops

One million troops... How? Did they call in all of their reserves for this attack? Shhssh (talk) 12:54, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

“It's not a million-strong force that will be conducting a counterattack,” Dr Jack Watling, senior research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, told the broadcaster. “Normally you would want operational surprise when you launch a counterattack, so announcing it publicly is partly about forcing the Russians to have to commit resources more widely to guard against this threat.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-million-army-russia-weapons-b2120445.html

YantarCoast (talk) 18:37, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Subject

Sorry, but there are no real sources for Ukrainian summer counteroffensive. Claims by Reznikov about 1-million people counteroffensive was misunderstood by a journalist. Ukrainian army constantly performs local counteroffensives whenever there are people and equipment for that. "counteroffensive began on 11 July 2022" - why? Why not 10 July or 12 July? UA performed multiple HIMARS strikes in June too. This article is not based on facts. Kanzat (talk) 10:41, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

I agree, I've seen multiple sources saying that Ukraine is gearing up for a counteroffensive in *August*, and there's no real evidence of any counteroffensive ongoing right now. All that's listed in the "Battle" section is the recapture of one town, some statements by Ukrainian sources, and the shelling of some Russian positions and depots. I see no reason why this page should exist right now. It should definitely be considered for deletion. It will probably have to be created (again) in a month or two's time, if Ukrainian claims of a coming counteroffensive are true, that is. PixelatedGalaxy (talk) 00:08, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

IF that was even a "recapture of one town". Ivanovka is a village (831 living here in 2001, barely increasing later), which, according to my sources, has already been in the "grey zone", not controlled by anyone. --M1911 (talk) 06:29, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

So why would Russia store military equipment if there's less than 20 thousand people in Vasylivka? Dawsongfg (talk) 20:18, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

I was talking about Kherson Ivanovka village that they "took over". Vasilievka is very far from that part of the front. --M1911 (talk) 13:42, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

July 23, 2022 -- no offensive yet... this article should be deleted. 158.51.81.47 (talk) 22:01, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Definitely. Delete.

First paragraph is full phrases like "claim", "state", "likely", "unlikely", "preparing to launch or to have already launched" :)

Everything may happened and may not, great info. 194.59.242.64 (talk) 14:16, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

I agree, there hasn't really been that much evidence for a Ukrainian push, mostly just chest-thumping by Ukrainian officials at the moment. I suggest deleting the article unless the Ukrainians announce major gains. 2601:85:C101:C9D0:3856:42AC:9F0E:9337 (talk) 19:31, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Oppose Then what's with the map and ISW reporting fighting, even in Lozove area PAST the Inhulets river? If anything all that should be mentioned somewhere at least. Dawsongfg (talk) 16:13, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

I've seen a lot of posts on Social Media recently claiming that Ukrainian Forces have surrounded 2000 Russian soldiers at Vysokopillia, nothing has been confirmed yet, and personally I doubt it, but if it turns out to be true then maybe the article can stay, a major encirclement is a clear sign of a major counteroffensive. PixelatedGalaxy (talk) 13:18, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Quite predictably - not even the Ukraine's Army HQs have confirmed such a sorround near Vysokopolye, claimed by Arestovich. --M1911 (talk) 19:50, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

as of July 23 2022, there has been no offensive operations that have resulted in gains by Ukraine... where is the offensive? 158.51.81.47 (talk) 22:00, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

I agree there's a lack of sourced evidence that there is an active, notable "counteroffensive" going on by Ukrainian forces. This article is premature and was clearly created based on a small amount of optimistic sources at the time of creation. The lack of action at all in the small "Battles" section is indicative of it, and the Background and prelude seem largely copy-pasted from other wiki pages in order to add legitimacy. This page, in its current stage, should be nominated for deletion. Let it be re-created once the Ukrainians officially announce a true, large-scale counteroffensive along a broad front, not just local grey zone skirmishes. RopeTricks (talk) 06:02, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Agree. It appears there isn't actually any confirmation that this counteroffensive is in play. The best I can find is what the ISW said yesterday: "Ukrainian forces are likely preparing to launch or have launched a counteroffensive in Kherson Oblast as of July 23, but open-source visibility on the progress and tempo of the counteroffensive will likely be limited and lag behind events." (https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-july-23). I.e. they can't confirm that it has actually begun yet. YantarCoast (talk) 09:16, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

The counteroffensive does not need to be in play to justify the article. Wikipedia is not a news ticker. There are enough reports in WP:RS saying that the counteroffensive is planned. The 2022 Libyan presidential election hasn't happened yet, but we already have an article on it. The 23 July ISW report adds to the other sources, including those describing the Antonivka Road Bridge attacks, and and Serhiy Khlan's statements, which justify keeping this article. I'm removing the PROD notice.

The lead does did need downgrading from ongoing to planned.

Boud (talk) 16:39, 24 July 2022 (UTC) (downgrade  Done Boud (talk) 17:04, 24 July 2022 (UTC)) (fix garbled wording by me Boud (talk) 17:06, 24 July 2022 (UTC))

If using the very same principle, I guess Wikipedia could have tried to make an article called "Russian capitulation before the Ukraine (202?)" or something close, made of solely sources which are eventually based on loose claims by Ukrainian and some international authorities (such as Lech Wałęsa) what would they do in such scenario. Further, in case Russia wins, it still wouldn't need to be deleted, because, you know, "one day "the heroes" will return". :-) --M1911 (talk) 17:30, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Shhh, don't tell them. 2601:85:C101:C9D0:FCB8:52EF:9B52:3095 (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Is the rule the same as films and things? Dawsongfg (talk) 17:47, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Protection

Can this page get the protection that's about the verified email thing and such? Reasoning: IP user going all "garbage propoganda". Dawsongfg (talk) 19:40, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Two of the recent vandalisations were fixed within a few minutes, and other edits might better need talk page discussion. In any case, have a read through WP:ROUGHSEMI, read about what page semi-protection really is (it has nothing to do with email verification) and make a proposal there at the link for making proposals (you'll find this when you read through) if you still feel that semi-protection is needed. Boud (talk) 00:07, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

No sense

There isn't any ukrainian counteroffensive in Kherson Oblast or in other regions now. This offenive had to start in July or August. Now it is the end of August. This was only propaganda. No offensive, no facts, no sense for the stand of this article based on nothing more than ukrainian propaganda 151.45.252.74 (talk) 22:53, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

This is propaganda

There has been no proof of any counteroffensive by the Ukrainian Army and in matter fact it is the Russians who are advancing in Kherson. This is why nobody take Wikipedia serious 24.91.190.77 (talk) 10:28, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Assuming that Wikipedia is a credible source anymore is laughable. If anything the "Ukrainian counteroffensive" is going into reverse and it is the Russians that are advancing. This isn't even propaganda (it assumes that there is at least a bit of truth in the story) this is simply alternate history, fiction. Fortunately lies are just that, they have no impact on the real world and will not change anything: the Russians will continue to advance and capture city after city. 95.236.35.12 (talk) 13:30, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

retards

who tf made this retarded shit ? 123.50.74.130 (talk) 13:42, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

The wounded

The article fails to mention that those 26 wounded are the redditors and wikipedia writers of the Grand Ukrainian Social Media Army that happened to have a stroke when they realized they were being fed bullshit, that the counteroffensive was always a lie and now it is real but going in reverse.

Edit request

In the counteroffensive section, please change "In the next months" to "In the next month". These attacks happened in August, the month after July. 38.133.32.198 (talk) 15:42, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

casualty count on side of Ukraine is bad

Casualty count is from 2nd of August NPR interview based on a number that was given from one medical center, not an overall number. At a minimum it should be changed to 26+, best to mark as unreliable source, scrap number, or replace number. Additionally this is only injured. 172.5.152.119 (talk) 16:22, 26 August 2022 (UTC)