User talk:E-960

Noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. --Astral Leap (talk) 14:35, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

June 2021

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 week for breaching your editing restrictions., as you did at The Holocaust. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  Girth Summit _(blether) 19:28, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Wugapodes and Girth Summit, I'll serve out the block, but I must say, this is a bit of a quick draw on the block. It was not my intention to get into controversies on the subject matter. While reading the Belarus article's history section I just noticed a minor historical factual inaccuracy (and rather a non-controversial one), and corrected the text. I simply forgot myself... that I have a topic ban on the subject, which not only extends into dogmas and politics, but also covers simple historical facts. If Astral Leap simply pinged me about the violation I would have reverted and confirmed that I did indeed breached the set restrictions. As before, it seems that Astral Leap is more interested in getting me blocked then to ensure that things stay orderly on Wikipedia. --E-960 (talk) 06:07, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

E-960, you are casting aspersions against another editor's motivations. I'm not going to extend your block at this point, because a certain amount of leeway is sometimes given to blocked users venting their frustration. Please don't repeat that though - accusations against another editor should be made at the proper venue, and supported by evidence.

As for the speed of the block - that was a massive chunk of text you removed, in an area that was clearly covered by your topic ban. You need to be much more careful. I wouldn't be averse to another admin unblocking if you requested it, provided that you make a clear and unambiguous undertaking to fully abide by the restrictions from now on. Girth Summit _(blether) 06:28, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

E-960 - Perhaps it is time to appeal the ban? Be careful going forward and appeal in 3-6 months I would say. - GizzyCatBella🍁 06:31, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

It's your responsibility to remember your block and follow it. It's no one else's responsibility to remind you of it. And the purpose of topic bans is that you need to stay out of the topic area completely except for those very very rare exceptions covered by WP:BANEX. It doesn't matter if the edits you made were uncontroversial. Although in any case, large changes while not inherently controversial, are significant enough that they also can't simply be put down as a minor technical violation. It's not like this is some ancient topic ban. It was imposed August 2020 and you were warned in November 2020. If you aren't able to avoid topic bans and aren't able to remember topic bans imposed less than a year ago, perhaps Wikipedia isn't the place for you. I'd also counsel against appealing your topic ban in 3 months. Even 6 months seems a bit soon. While it will depend on the other evidence, an editor who is so poorly able to abide by the topic ban, and handles it so poorly when they are rightfully blocked for violating it twice is not the sort of editor I'd imagine is reformed enough constructively edit in the area. Nil Einne (talk) 08:22, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

One more issue I'll mention is that if Astral Leap saw the first violation and didn't warn but instead ignored it not because they thought they'd give you a pass for a mistake but because they were thinking one would just lead to another warning and they wanted you to be blocked, then yes that would be wrong. But there is absolutely no evidence this is what happened so you should not be assuming it's what happened (WP:AGF etc).

Also in relation to my earlier comments, you may wonder why I consider 6 months a bit short since it's enough for the STANDARDOFFER. My response is along two main points. One I personally consider 6 months the absolute minimum. It's fine for someone with a small amount of not very malicious sockpuppetry. But I'm generally very wary of an editor appealing almost the instant the 6 months is up if there is more of a problematic history. Often times I see these appeals and I just don't !vote and yeah often they pass, still I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way so I'm sure it harms especially when there is opposition for other reasons. In your case, my read of the discussion when the topic ban was imposed, especially when combined with how you handled this, is that you're far more in the highly problematic history that I'd really like to see more than 6 months.

More importantly, the nature of the standard offer is most of the time we can only go by the history before the block/s, and the appeal. While some editors edit other projects, it's not a requirement for various good reasons and depending on the previous problems and other factors it may not count for much. In the case of a topic ban, it's different. We can see what else you've been doing here.

My feeling is that your response suggests you still don't understand why the topic ban was imposed i.e. why the community feels it necessary. Instead I suspect at least in part, you feel you were unfairly targeted because of your views and/or religious beliefs. This makes it hard for you to edit in the area without causing more problems. Perhaps this will have changed in 6 months, but I doubt it.

Although you have to stay out of this area I find it likely that your feelings on the matter will still have filtered through to your edits enough even without any violations, that this will come out when an appeal comes. Further it's even more likely this will come through in your appeal. And an appeal for a topic ban tends to require more input from you than the average CLEANSTART anyway IMO.

We can also combine the two in a way. While the topic ban imposes a burden on you as I said in my first response, and you may find it annoying, there is still a lot of the encyclopaedia you can edit. For that reason, I also expect a number of editors are less willing to simply give WP:ROPE after 6 months with no violations.

Nil Einne (talk) 09:32, 30 June 2021 (UTC)